Free Declaration in Support - District Court of California - California

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 1 of 10

1 2
3
4 5

UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION California State Foster Parent Association, California State Care Providers Association, and Legal Advocates for Permanent Parenting, Plaintiffs, vs. JOHN A. WAGNER, Director of the California Department of Social Services, in his official capacity; MARY AULT, Deputy Director of the Children and Family Services Division of the California Department of Social Services, in her official capacity, Defendants.
)

Case No. C 07 5086 WHA

)
) )

6
7 8
9

ORiGINAL

) ) ) ) ) ) ) )
) )

DEPOSITION OF SHEILAH DUPUY

10
11

12
"

)
)

13
14

)

)
)

)

15 16 17 18
19

)

-----------------)

TAKEN ON: TAKEN AT:

TUESDAY, MARCH 4, 2008 400 CAPITOL MALL, SUITE 2600 SACRAMENTO, CALIFORNIA KEVIN C. ADAMS-CARTER CSR NUMBER 8468

REPORTER: 20
21 22
23

"

.'

\

24 25
1
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 2 of 10

1 2 3 4 5
6

supervised would review those applications, make sure that we had documentation necessary to ensure state and federal eligibility according to our regulations, request additional information if needed, and then establish the rates.
Q.

Now, when you say make sure they had documentation

7
8
9

for state and federal eligibility, what kind of documentation are you referring to?
A.

For example, providers are required to be

10 11 12
13

non-profit organizations in California, so we would ask for proof of their non-profit status.
Q. A.

Can you think of more examples? For a group home rate setting providers were

14 15
16

responsible for projecting out the level of care and services they intended to provide. Q. Was there any documentation specific for foster

17
18

family homes? MR. PRINCE: answer. THE WITNESS: The staff that I supervised did not Objection; foundation. You may

19 20 21 22
23

set rates for foster family homes. BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

Is that

is that true through your entire time

24 25

you were foster rates bureau chief, 2001 to 2007? MR. PRINCE: Objection, vague.
46
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 3 of 10

1

THE WITNESS: you asked? BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

As the bureau chief, is that what

2 3
4

Well, during your -- during the time period of

5
6 7

2001 to 2007. A.
Q.

Yes, that's correct. Do you know who was responsible for setting rates

8
9

for foster family homes during that time period? A. The counties. I -- the the rate structure for

10
11

foster family homes is specified in statute.
Q.

Uh-huh. And it varies according to the age of the child. I mean, I'd like to correct that. I guess, in my Again, the

12 13 14 15 16 17
18

A.

mind the counties don't even set the rates.

rates are specified in statute; therefore, if you're a county placing in a foster family home and you have a child of a certain age, that rate is -- is already established.

Q.

Well, in paragraph six where you write "I

19 20 21 22
23

supervise a group of individuals responsible for setting rates for group homes and foster family agencies," what do you mean by "foster family agencies"? A. A foster family agency is a -- trying to think how it's a non-profit organization, at least

to describe it

24 25

in California, that certifies foster family homes to provide services to children placed in out-of-home care.
47
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 4 of 10

1 2 3 4 5
6

you or anyone under your supervision -- does you or anyone under your supervision do any studies to determine whether any of these particular -- whether the payments made to foster care providers are sufficient to cover any of these particular categories? MR. PRINCE: Well, foundation, ambiguous,

7
8

compound, but you may answer if you have an understanding. THE WITNESS: again? Have we -- can you just ask me that

9 10 11 12 13 14
15

Have we done any --

BY MR. TABESH: Q. Sure. Do -- did -- do you or anyone you supervise

do any studies to determine whether the payments that you make to foster care providers cover, for example, the cost of food? A. study.
Q.

Neither myself nor my staff have ever done such a

16
17

And how about -- how about with respect to

18
19

clothing? A. Neither my nor my staff have done studies on any

20 21 22
23
24

of these items.
Q.

So on no particular item did you or your staff do

any studies to
A.

(Affirmative nod.) Okay. Are you familiar with the term foster care
62
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866299-5127

Q.

25

maintenance payments?

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 5 of 10

1

MR. PRINCE:

Form of the question.

And I think

2
3

she's already tes -- well -THE WITNESS: Yes. I said it was some measure of

4
5

cost of living something. MR. TABESH: THE WITNESS: Okay. And then --

6

I don't -- I don't -- I'm not an

7 8
9

expert in what the CNI is. BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

Okay.

But the California Necessities Index is

10
11

specifically cited in -- in this statute? A. Correct. And it is is it your -- is it one of your

12

Q.

13
14

duties to implement the -- this statute? A. Yes, it's my responsibility to implement what's

15
16

statutorily mandated.
Q.

And if the statute says shall be adjusted by the

17 18 19 20
21

percentage changes in the California Necessities Index, I just want to confirm, does your department adjust the percentage changes in the California Necessities Index on a annual basis? MR. PRINCE: Okay. I'm gonna object to the You're asking her to

22 23 24 25

question on the same basis as before. interpret a statute.

You're asking for her to make a legal

conclusion and I will instruct her not to answer this question because it's not appropriate given her role here
69
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 6 of 10

1 2 3
4

she can just give me an introduction of what she's attempting to describe in paragraph seven. to more specific questions after that. MR. PRINCE: Well, I think it would be helpful if And I can get

5 6 7
8

you went to a specific question now because, again, the paragraph talks about what it talks about. BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

All right.

You talk about annual -- lines 11 and

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16
17

12 -- annual CNI-based rate increases for group homes would become a discretionary item in the state budget process. What did you mean by annual CNI rate increases? A. What I meant is if there was a rate increase it

would be a discretionary item in the state budget process subject to the legislature making that determination.
Q.

So, when you talk about discretionary that's

specific to the state legislature? A. Yes. Is there any discretion exercised on the part of

18

Q.

19 20 21 22 23 24 25

you or anyone you supervise in this process?
A.

No. Okay. If you'd please turn -- turn to paragraph

Q.

ten.

Now this is referring to Welfare and Institutions And I will provide you a copy of

Code Section 11462(g) (2). that.

Introduce the next exhibit, which is California
73
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 7 of 10

1 2
3
4

Q.

Well, for example, does the federal government

provide any funds? A.
Q.

For a foster care maintenance paYment, yes. Okay. The federal government pays a share of a foster

5

A.

6 7
8

care maintenance paYment for an otherwise federally eligible child.

Q.

And how much does the federal government pay, what

9
10

percentage? A. percent.
Q.

On a federally eligible child they would pay 50

11
12

And what percentage would the state pay? The state and counties split the remaining 50

13

A. percent.
Q.

14 15
16
17
18

Do you know what the division is?

A.
Q.

60/4-e. C>OO{v CoL(nt~
60/40. MR. TABESH:

I Y;Oofl»

Stqt-e.

Take a five-minute break so I can get

19
20

this questioning correct. MR. PRINCE: Okay. Off the record. 1:45.

21

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: (Brief recess.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER:
1:56.

22
23

We're back on the record at

24

25

(MS. Davis rejoined the proceedings.)
75
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 8 of 10

1
2

BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

All right.

So previously I think you testified

3 4
5

that the legislature sets the rates for payments to foster care providers. A. I think we were talking -- I thought we were

6 7
8

talking about who appropriates the funds because you said what does the funds mean. Q. Right. Well, even before that. Like starting a

9 10 11 12
13

new line of questioning. know -- okay, well

Just want to establish that, you

who -- who sets the -- who sets the

rates for paYments to the foster care -- foster family homes? MR. PRINCE: Vague as to time. Talking about

14
15

current time or historically or -MR. TABESH: MR. PRINCE: frame. Between 2001 and 2007. Ambiguous. That's a six-year time

16

17 18
19

I mean, if it hasn't changed and you can answer it

that's fine. THE WITNESS: The rates for foster family homes

20 21
22

are established in statute. BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

In statute.

Does your organization provide any

23 24
25

input to the legislature as to whether rate changes are necessary? MR. PRINCE: Asked and answered.
76
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 9 of 10

1 2 3 4
5

THE WITNESS:

I would need to know what it -- what

it is, as well as when you say you have never been asked, meaning myself, my staff? BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

You or your staff been asked to -- been asked by

6 7 8 9 10 11
12

the legislature -- well, no, I guess that's a little bit different question. Have -- have you or your staff ever come forward with information to the legislature indicating that the amount of reimbursement for care and supervision of foster children is insufficient in any way? MR. PRINCE: assumes facts. Well, objection; foundation and

13
14

You may answer. Well, neither myself nor my staff

THE WITNESS:

15 16
17 18

would provide or has provided testimony to the legislature. BY MR. TABESH:
Q.

Any written documents? MR. PRINCE: Aside from what she's already

19
20

testified about in terms of the SB 370 reports? MR. TABESH: THE WITNESS: Yes. I believe there was one other

21

22 23
24

report to the legislature on foster family home/foster family agency placements. MR. TABESH: Excuse me. I'm getting some cell
80
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127

25

phone-type interference.

I don't know if anyone's got one

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-2

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 10 of 10

1 2
3
4

Q.

Would this fall under I -- I don't know. Okay. Have you ever sat in on any legislative

A.
Q.

hearings con -- regarding rate increases paid to foster care providers? A. I don't recall sitting in in any hearings

5
6

7
8

regarding rate increase. Q. Have you ever read any hearing transcripts on --

9
10

about rate increases to foster care providers? A. I don't remember ever seeing any legislative

11 12 13 14
15 16

transcripts.
Q.

Do you have any understanding of how the

legislature sets the rates for foster care parents on -- on what information it bases its decisions on? A.
Q.

Repeat your question. Do you have an un -- well, do you have an

17 18
19

understanding of how the legislature sets the rates for reimbursements of paYments to foster care parents? A. If this is my personal understanding of the

20 21 22 23 24 25

budgetary process, my understanding of the budgetary process is the legislature considers the various programs underneath its responsibility. Whether it's health,

education, foster care, any other program, they take a look at the existing budget that's in place, they decide, based on public testimony and testimony of others, whether
100
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866 299-5127