Free Declaration in Support - District Court of California - California

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

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Q.

What's your understanding of why the foster family

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home rates have not increased with the CNI as mandated by this statute? A. My understanding is that the legislature hasn't

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passed legislation to increase the rate as the rest of the sentence says, "subject to availability of funds." that's just my understanding. Q. But isn't this statute, Section 11461, a state But

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statute that DSS is required to implement? MR. PRINCE: Objection; calls for a legal

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conclusion and an opinion, foundation, and assumes facts. You may answer. THE WITNESS: Yeah, my understanding is when the

budget is passed every year the legislature provides specific statute to support the budget. BY MR. KEANE: Q. And then DSS would just implement that

legislation? A. DSS has no authority to implement anything beyond

what the state legislature authorizes. Q. Right. So if the state legislature authorizes an

increase in the foster family home rates, DSS would implement that in a way that you've already discussed, through ACLs, ACINs? A. If that's what the budget required that's -- the

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department would implement what the budgets requires.
Q.

So, in your understanding, the extent of DSS's

implementation of Section (d) (1) (a) of the statute is to follow the lead of the legislature?

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A.

Well--

MR. PRINCE:

Objection.

Again, you're asking for Asked and answered.

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an opinion and a legal conclusion. THE WITNESS:

Yeah, within my authority I only

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have authority to implement what the budget authorizes as it would relate -- in those times where I was responsible for a -- a -- a particular area related to foster care rates, my responsibility would be implement what the budget document and authorizing statute provided for. BY MR. KEANE: Q. So you said you're not aware that the CNI

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increases every year, correct? MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: Asked and answered. I'm saying that as as we sit I don't know if It

here, if the CNI increases, it increases. it increases every year. I

I don't track that. I don't

it very well could increase.

that's not my job

to keep track of the CNI -- or wasn't my job. BY MR. KEANE: Q. I'll introduce document 17. Unfortunately, I only

have three of those so you guys want to look --

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specific section and implementing it.

I can say that the

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department, through the budget process, would identify relevant statute and would recommend through the budget process what was viewed as required, and then the budget process would take over as I've described earlier. BY MR. KEANE: Q. So when you were at DSS did DSS have any role in

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initiating a proposal for increases in foster family horne rates? MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: Objection; asked and answered. Yeah, I can't speak for DSS. I can in

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speak for myself in that if -- if in my capacity in

jobs related to that I would have done everything I could to meet and comply with any requirements that were imposed on the department. BY MR. KEANE: Q. But meet and comply with requirements as opposed

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to initiate a dialogue on your own or on the -- on behalf of your branch? MR. PRINCE: Objection; assumes facts, and I think

it's been asked and answered. THE WITNESS: Yeah.

But you can answer. I -- I believe that my

responsibility would be to pursue whatever legislative requirements were placed on the department and, you know, identify those and attempt to follow through with what they

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requested. BY MR. KEANE: Q. So by -- by pursue legislative requirements do you

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mean legislative requirements that would arise periodically in the forms of legislation or statutory requirements that already exist? MR. PRINCE: unintelligible. Objection; vague, ambiguous,

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You may answer. Both. I -- I'm -- I'm not able to

THE WITNESS:

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recall specific instance, but if there's a legislative report that was put into legislation in the previous year that said by such and such a date the department would provide this information or take this action, then it would be my job to follow through with that as a -- as an example. MR. KEANE: Okay. Introducing document 18.

(Deposition Exhibit 18 was marked for identification.) BY MR. KEANE: Q. A. Q. Have you seen this document before? Yes. Sure. I peeked to the last page, so How would you characterize this document,

what it is? A. Appears to be a rate letter to the county based on

state law change.

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increase. BY MR. KEANE: Q. What's your understanding of why that increase

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only happened on that one occasion, not every year? MR. PRINCE: answer. THE WITNESS: BY MR. KEANE: Q. Was there anything preventing DSS from proposing I -- I don't have any recollection. Objection; foundation. You may

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an increase such as the one called for in Section (d) (1) (B) on an annual basis when you were at DSS? MR. PRINCE: assumes facts, Objection; calls for speculation,

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foundation. Yeah, I can't speak for what DSS

THE WITNESS:

could or couldn't have done. BY MR. KEANE:

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Q.

So when you directed staff to prepare ACL 99-107,

which is Exhibit 18, you did that solely in response to a legislative enactment, correct? A. Q. That appears to be the purpose. Do you recall any discussions taking place while

you were at DSS on why the rate increase, such as the one announced in this ACL 99-107, why that rate increase wasn't happening on an annual basis? A. I don't recall any specific conversations.

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. malntenance payments are to cover.

. Durlng your tenure at

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DSS are you -- were you aware of any branch or subdivision, bureau, any component of DSS that calculated the cost of food, for example? We'll go through them one by one. Food

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to a foster c h i l d . ,

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MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: BY MR. KEANE: Q.

Objection; foundation. Am I aware -- am I aware of what?

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Are you aware -- do you recall any calculation

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done by any branch of DSS, any component of DSS, any calculation of the cost of providing food to a foster child in California? A. Q. items. A. Q. Yes. In your understanding was it anyone's I do not recall. And I'm gonna assume that's true for the other

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responsibility in the Child and Family Services Division to calculate these costs? A. I do not recall a specific area or assignment to

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track that level of detail in the basic rate. Q. A. What about any -- any other part of DSS? I -- I don't recall any -- any specific

assignments related to that. Q. So

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A. Q.

Do I believe they can be? Yeah. MR. PRINCE: Objection; foundation. And it's

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argumentative and it's not relevant. THE WITNESS:

Go ahead.
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I believe that the rate is set And I'm not privy to all of

through a legislative process.

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the considerations that the legislature makes in determining what the appropriate rate is. BY MR. KEANE: Q. at DSS? A. Q. Yes. Okay. While you were employed at DSS, did you And was that your feeling when you were employed

feel that the foster care maintenance payments adequately compensated parents for the cost of caring for foster children? MR. PRINCE: facts. Objection; vague, foundation, assumes

It's not germane and it's argumentative. THE WITNESS: So the question is did I feel that

this was adequate -- an adequate payment? MR. KEANE: THE WITNESS: feelings. M-hm. I actually tried not to operate on

I -- I operated on what the statute gave me I would provide input as within our And so, I -- I didn't operate on a

authority to pursue. ability to understand.

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feeling basis on the rate.

It was -- the rate was what the

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rate was and we provided that information and the counties implemented it. BY MR. KEANE: Q. I don't mean feeling in a personal capacity, I
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mean feeling in terms of the responsibilities of your job. Do you feel, based on what you were required to do at DSS, that the compensation given to foster parents was adequate? MR. PRINCE: and answered. THE WITNESS: Yeah, you're -- you're putting it in Same objections in addition to asked

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a context that wasn't how I would approach the rate system. You know, the rate system provides different

levels of payments that are eligible, that can pay for eligible activities across a wide range of -- of different placement options. And that's how I approached the job as

in terms of making sure that the authorized payment was available and able to be used for the activities it was intended. BY MR. KEANE: Q. While you were employed by DSS were you aware of

any legislative advocates who advocated on behalf of foster parents? A. Q. Yes. What were the circumstances of that?

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anything.

And those go through a process that evaluates And it's

the -- the need and capacity of everything.

reviewed in multiple places and a decision is made on whether it's needed or appropriate. Q. Okay. So in your experience while working at DSS

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did you think there were advantages to having more foster homes available to foster children? MR. PRINCE: facts. Objection; foundation, assumes

You can go ahead and answer it. THE WITNESS: My program bent was to try and Once

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provide services to prevent out-of-home placement.

you get into out-of-home placement our priority, according to state law, was always to the lowest possible placement that would meet the needs of the child. So in that context

we were always pushing to try and achieve those programmatic outcomes. BY MR. KEANE: Q. A. What do you mean by "lowest possible placement"? Well, in the hierarchy of placement, foster

parents -- well, first -- well, foster parents, Kin-GAP parents, whatever level in a family environment, that's the lowest and most homelike. Then you go up to foster family And then you get into the

homes, which are more intensive. group home. placement.

So there's -- there's different levels of So in -- in terms of priority, a family-like

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setting is the highest priority.

But there's a huge fiscal

incentive for counties to meet -- place in family homes anyway because their share of costs of group homes are are very high, so they have every incentive to try and meet that placement need. Q. And what are the advantages to having the lowest Why were you pushing for that?

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possible placement? A. removing. priority. Q. A.

Well, as I said, I was actually pushing for not But state law is -- is clear that that's our

What are the advantages? That the child is in a home-like setting instead

of a non- or more institutional setting.

Q.

And why would that be an advantage? MR. PRINCE: Objection; germane. Go ahead and

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answer it. THE WITNESS: Well, I -- I don't know how to It's a home versus an

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answer it in any more detail. institution. BY MR. KEANE: Q.

Well, I'm trying to get you to just spell out the

specifics of why it's better for a child to be in that environment. A. And -- and, really, I'm not qualified to answer

specifically.

Programmatically we viewed a family setting

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as in the best interest of a child.

That priority has been

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established through federal and state law, and it's based on -- I assume on -- in addition to practical knowledge, it's -- it's, you know, what social workers and psychologists and those people would believe is best interest of the child. and is the

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And those are the operational

statutes, best interest of the child, lowest -- lowest level of placement. Q. Okay. Last exhibit, Number 20.

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(Deposition Exhibit 20 was marked for identification.) BY MR. KEANE:

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Q.
A.

Have you ever seen that document?
I

think so.

Or I

think we contributed to it.

I

think this is produced by the -- it's off their web page or something. Q. So how would you characterize what this document

A.

This -- this was a document that we were to the feds or ACF as part of the They liked our quality assurance

requested to submit to child welfare reviews.

system that we were implementing in California. Q. So the document is about the California child and

family review system, correct? A. Yeah, it -- it's about that system and how we are
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effective way of trying to get to real solutions. Q. And the increase in rates was not a significant

component of that, correct? MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: Asked and answered. I'm saying that an increase in rates And the information

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certainly could have been raised.

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would be compiled and put forth and the legislature would be -- and all the players would be aware of it. But I

don't recall when I was involved that that was identified as the -- the key reason for program performance in -- in counties or -- you know, failure to meet objectives. could have certainly been raised. BY MR. KEANE: Q. Yeah, I wasn't asking if it was a key reason, just It

I'm not saying that.

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if it was significant or not. A. My -- my recollection is that that was not a I -- I think the SIPs

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prevailing theme in any of the SIPs.

were much more focused and operational on how people achieve performance. And they probably focused more on --

on unmet training needs and services that could be provided. Q. Okay. I think you've testified that during your

career at DSS you don't recall any conversations -personal conversations that you had about the inadequacy of foster care maintenance payments; is that correct?

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MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: MR. KEANE: MR. PRINCE: MR. KEANE:

That's correct, he so testified. Yes. Okay. No further questions.

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Thank you. Thank you for your time. We're going off the record at

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THE VIDEOGRAPHER: 3:25.

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This is the end of tape number four and the end of the deposition.

(The deposition concluded at 3:25 p.m.)

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