Free Declaration in Support - District Court of California - California

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 1 of 10

Page 67

1 2
3
4

with the legal service that we get these statutes from. And if you look at section (a) of the statute, at the end of the paragraph it says "Click here to view image." The image is a table that appears in the statute.

5
6
7

And so, the table you have to printout as a separate document which is 6-A. MR. PRINCE: So 6-A is part of this statute. Can you indicate as to what date this

8 9

is current and/or when it was printed and whether this is again from your Deering's code? MR. KEANE: Sure. This is directly from the same If you were to enter

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19
20

code that's represented in Exhibit 6.

that citation in Lexis you would retrieve this very document that's Exhibit 6. You would not see the table

unless you click where it says "Click here to view image," which I did this morning, and it gives you the image that shows up as what I've introduced as Exhibit 6-A. BY MR. KEANE: Q. So my question is, you see at the end of paragraph

(a) in Exhibit 6, the per child month rates in the following schedule shall be in effect for the period July 1st, 1989 through December 31st, 1989. correct? A.
Q.

21 22 23 24 25

You see that,

Yes. Okay. And what follows that in the statute is So take a look at

Exhibit 6-A, the table in Exhibit 6-A.

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 2 of 10

Page 68

1 2 3
4

6-A for a second just to look at the two columns. A. Q.
A.

Okay. Do you know where these numbers carne from? No. Have you ever seen these numbers before? I'm sure I have. Do you know whether any part of DSS had any role

5
6

Q. A. Q.

7

8
9

in proposing these numbers? A. Q. I do not. To the best of your recollection, what was your

10 11 12 13 14 15 16

position at DSS in the 1988 time frame? A. I think I was either in Foster Care Rates or

Foster Care Policy Bureaus, one of those two.

Q.

So do you think either of those bureaus would have

had input in setting these initial rates? MR. PRINCE: speculation. Objection; foundation, calls for
II ,

17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

You may answer. Not -- not in setting the rates. We

THE WITNESS:

~

1

would have a role in implementing the rates through statute. BY MR. KEANE: Q. Would it surprise you if you found out that these

rates had been set by the legislature without any involvement from DSS whatsoever? MR. PRINCE: Objection; argumentative, foundation,

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 3 of 10

Page 70

1

(Deposition Exhibit 13 was marked for identification.) BY MR. KEANE: Q. A. Are you familiar with this document? I'm familiar with the format and the type of

2
3
4

5

6
7

document, not this one specifically. Q. A. How would you characterize what this document is? It's an all county letter issued by the Department

8 9 10 11 12 13

of Social Services, related to the subject matter of foster care and kinship assistant payments.

Q.

And do you see the table at the bottom with the

rates for family homes? A. Q. Yes. Does that refresh your recollection of the foster

14
15

ballpark rates that were paid to family horne family homes? A.

16
17 18 19 20 21 22

Yeah, I accept that that's what the rates were

during that period of time. Q. Okay. Are you aware that between 2001 and 2008

these rates did not increase? A. Q.
A.

No. You're not aware of that? No. Was your -- was it your understanding that the

23
24

Q.

25

rates did increase?

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services

866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 4 of 10

Page 71

1 2
3

A.

I don't recall one way or the other.

Didn't keep

track of it.

Q.

Okay.

Is -- would the schedule of basic rates

4 5
6 7

have been something you needed to look at or refer to in your position at DSS -- in any of your positions at DSS? A. Yes, it would be a fact. These are the rates that you know, for these type

are paid for out-of-home care for,

8
9

of children in this type of placement. Q. Okay. So from 2001 until you retired, it wouldn't

10 11 12 13 14 15 16

have been uncommon for you to refer to this schedule of basic rates? MR. PRINCE: testimony. Objection; mischaracterizes

You may answer. I would refer to them if needed -- I

THE WITNESS:

would know they -- where to find them if I needed to. BY MR. KEANE: Q. Okay. Under what circumstances would you have

17
18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

needed to refer to them? A. Just questions that came up. It -- it could be I -- I can't

whatever -- whatever form the need was. recall anything specific.

But I -- I would know where to

get them or who to find them from. Q. Which branch within DSS has the responsibility for

setting these rates? MR. PRINCE: Objection; foundation,

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services

866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 5 of 10

Page 74

1 2 3
4

Finance's analysis.

And the administration mayor may not

take any kind of position. Q. Okay. I appreciate that tour. Do you recall any analyses of foster

All right.

5
6

family home rates during your tenure at DSS? A. Q. I don't recall anything specific. Within the Child and Youth Permanency Branch would

7

8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

it have been a particular bureau that would have been responsible for such an analysis? A. In this particular organization it would more than

likely have been the permanency policy, though, you know, support services could -- could have been involved. It

again, depending on a subject matter within the -- the program, they can reach out and get specific information, but it depends on what the bill's about. Q. But you don't recall any specific analysis of

or even hearing about any specific analysis of foster family home rates? A. I'm -- I'm sure that conservatively I've looked at I don't

several thousand bill analyses during my time. recall any specifics. Q. Okay.

On this org chart, 11-2, Permanency Policy

Bureau lists K. Gunderson -A. Q. Karen. -- Karen Gunderson as acting -- would that be

. ,.J
Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services

~

866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 6 of 10

Page 76

1 2
3

BY MR. KEANE: Q. Okay. Now, you said at the time of your

retirement the Permanency Policy Bureau would have been the subdivision within DSS most likely to have performed any analysis of foster family home rates. A. Q. from That would be my recollection. What about before that time period, specifically specific in the time period going back to 2001. So

4

5
6

7

8

9 10 11 12 13

between 2001 and 2006, would there have been another subdivision that would have filled that role? A. I don't recall when this organization was set up.

It was set up sometime during Silvia Pizzini's term as deputy. And I don't recall the specific time frame when Prior to Silvia Pizzini there was a

14
15 16 17

that -- that occurred.

Foster Care Branch, and that branch would have been responsible for foster care issues.

Q.

Including, potentially, analyses of foster family

18
19 20 21 22 23 24

home rates? A. Correct. Did you personally ever recommend a particular set

Q.

of foster care maintenance payment rates? A. Q. Not to my recollection. Did you ever personally investigate the adequacy

of foster care maintenance payment rates? MR. PRINCE: Objection; vague. You may answer.

25

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 7 of 10

Page 77

1

THE WITNESS: BY MR. KEANE:

No.

No.

2 3 4 5 6
7

Q.

Did you ever supervise staff in the setting of

foster care maintenance rates? MR. PRINCE: answer. Objection; foundation. You may

Also assumes facts. THE WITNESS: I don't believe I ever supervised Rates are set by the
11

8 9 10
11

anybody in setting the rates. legislature. BY MR. KEANE: Q.

Did you ever supervise staff in investigating the

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

adequacy of foster care maintenance payment rates? A. I don't recall specific MR. PRINCE: facts. Objection; foundation and assumes

You may answer. THE WITNESS: I don't recall the -- a specific

incidence. MR. KEANE: Okay. Let me introduce Exhibit 14.

(Deposition Exhibit 14 was marked for identification.) BY MR. KEANE: Q. Exhibit 14 is Defendants' Rule 26 Initial Have you ever seen this

Disclosure, Supplemental Set. document? A. I don't recall it.

This--

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 8 of 10

1

Go ahead. THE WITNESS: They would get a response that

2
3
4

these are the -- the approved rates as approved by the legislature, and that -- frequently we would advise people if they were concerned about those things to contact the legislature. BY MR. KEANE:

5 6 7

8
9 10
11

Q.

Did you ever supervise staff in the investigation

of the adequacy of foster care maintenance payments rates? MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: BY MR. KEANE: Q. Are you aware of any DSS investigation of the Objection; asked and answered. I certainly don't recall that.

12

13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

adequacy of foster care maintenance payments rates? MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: recall any. BY MR. KEANE: Q. Would it surprise you if you learned that DSS had Objection; asked and answered. I don't -- I don't specifically

never done an investigation to the adequacy of foster tare maintenance payments? MR. PRINCE: assumes facts. THE WITNESS: I wouldn't be surprised or not.
I

22
23 24 25

Objection, argumentative,

foundation,

don't -- I mean, I don't recall anything related to -- to

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services

866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 9 of 10

Page 82

1

that. BY MR. KEANE: Q. What's your understanding of how the rate setting

2
3

4

process works for increases in foster family home rates? MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: Objection as to when in time. So increases to a family rate? Is

5
6

7
8
9

that what you're asking? BY MR. KEANE:

Q.
A. Q.

Foster family home rates, yeah. I'm really not aware of a a specific process.

10
11

Are you aware of those rates ever having been

12

increased? A. I'm aware there were COLAs from time to time. I

13

14
15 16

can't recall specifically what dates, but I know there have been COLAs in the past. Q. A. And by that you mean cost of living adjustments? Yeah. Correct.

17
18 19
20
21

Q.

So you don't recall the specific years that those

COLA adjustments took place?
A.

No. What's your understanding of why a COLA adjustment

Q.

22

would take place in some years and not others? MR. PRINCE: THE WITNESS: Objection; foundation. Yeah, I -- like I say, the

23
24

25

legislature approves the budget and I implement the budget.

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services 866299-5127

Case 3:07-cv-05086-WHA

Document 68-16

Filed 09/11/2008

Page 10 of 10

Page 83

1 2
3
4

In my -- in my job I would implement the budget or the decisions made in the budget. BY MR. KEANE: Q. So DSS wouldn't have any input one way or the

5
6
7

other about annual COLA increases in the rates? A. I didn't say that. I said that I specifically

didn't have or recall a role in that discussion other than as I said before, we would provide analysis to the budget process and to legislation. Q. Okay. But you don't recall any such analysis on

8

9 10 11 12

the adequacy of foster family home rates, correct? A. I don't recall. MR. PRINCE: BY MR. KEANE: Q. So the rate setting process for increases, for Objection; asked and answered.

13
14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24
25

COLA increases in foster family home rates, as you understand it that process is essentially subject to the vagaries of the legislature? MR. PRINCE: and foundation. Objection; vague, and argumentative,

But go ahead and answer. The decisions on the -- on the

THE WITNESS:

rates, to my understanding and knowledge, is made as part of the annual budget process. BY MR. KEANE: Q. But without any formal participation by DSS,

Veritext National Deposition & Litigation Services

866299-5127