Free Statement - District Court of Arizona - Arizona

EXHIBIT 3

Case 2:04-cv-00320-PGR

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J
UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
fr
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Pagel

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1) Bobbie M. Golden, et al., Plaintiffs,
)

JUL

Ljljl

vs.
2) Arizona Department of Administration, et al., Defendants.

)
)

CIV-04-0320-PHX-PGR

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DEPOSITION OF WAYNE CORCORAN Scottsdale, Arizona June 20, 2005 9:00 a.m.

Rebecca L. Beck, #50317 Certified Court Reporter C.A.T. REPORTER & TRANSCRIPT SERVICES 1325 East Townley [0)^/7 Phoenix, AZ 85020 602 943-3035

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Police July 31st,. 1997, I believe. Q Where did you work prior to that, immediately

prior to that? A Q I don't understand the immediate. Well, in other words, you said you started let me re-ask

with Capitol Police on July 31st, 1997 -- the question and make it more clear.

What was the employment you had prior to that? And I don't mean ten years prior to that, I mean

the last job you held prior to starting with Capitol Police? A Prior to working with the Arizona State

Capitol Police I had worked 30 years with the Phoenix Police Department and I worked approximately six months as a personal bodyguard to the president of Salt River Pima Indian Community. Q Department? A I did retire from the Phoenix Police Did you retire from the Phoenix Police

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Department, yes. Q A When was that? I retired from the Phoenix Police Department

I think it was March 26th of 1996. · Q And then you said you spent about six months

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working did you say Salt River Pima --

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that he gave you a specific order not to measure female officers for their vests? MS. HERBST: THE WITNESS: Objection. Form and foundation.

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I was never given an order by

Chief Staubitz not to measure for the body armor. Q BY MR. MARTIN: And I don't want to, you

know, mince words here because a word might have a specific connotation. Were you given any directive or any

suggestion you should not measure^ female employees for vests? A I was not told not to measure female or male

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employees for the body armor. Q measurements? A Q A
story?

And did you, in fact, volunteer to do those

I never volunteered to do those measurements. How did you end up doing any of them? Do you want the long story or the short

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Q A

Start with the short one. This was the second time the Capitol Police The first time I was

Department had ordered body armor. not involved in the beginning.

I was not involved in the

order of this body armor or the type or style we were going to get in any way. I did receive phone calls from

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the person who won the bid, I think he was in California,

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>and from the woman upstairs from purchasing on a daily or weekly basis demanding that the measurements be done so they could fulfill the order. I would bring this up to I believe

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the captain they were supposed to be measured.

they could go to any uniform shop, but I'm not sure about that one at that time because since they didn't buy the vests through the uniform shops I don't think they were happy to take the measurements. And that Sergeant Burris,

maybe Corporal at that time, was able to take measurements and filled out a form for measurements and faxed them to the person who had the contract. It was during this period that we were down to just a few left and we were in Chief Staubitz' office, Captain Swart was there, I don't believe -- been somebody else. could have

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It was getting in the afternoon and I

wanted to go home and the decision was to be made are we going to measure for the body armor or not. Captain Swart just get it done. Q A Q So that's what you did? That's what I did, yes. And did you feel that you did or said I was told by

anything inappropriate while measuring either of the plaintiffs? A I did not feel that I did or said anything

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inappropriate to either Officer Golden or Officer Hebets

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Q

BY MR. MARTIN:

Have you ever been asked not

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to use the letter? A I've never used the letter and I've never

been asked not to use the letter. Q 2002. Let me go back, if I can, to the summer of

We talked a little bit about measuring for the Do you recall specifically measuring

ballistic vests.

Shelly Hebets for a ballistic vest? A vest. Q Were you ever trained on how to properly do I did measure Shelly Hebets for a ballistic

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those measurements? A I have been trained how to properly do

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measurements on a ballistic vest. Q A When would that have been? Been trained by people in the body armor

business both as the manufacturer reps and uniform shops over the last 25 years. Q You testified earlier that Chief Staubitz had

never given you any type of order or directive to not measure female employees; is that correct? A I was never told by Chief Staubitz not to

measure employees for the body armor. Q And if he states otherwise that's simply not

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true; is that correct?

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Q A Q A Q Neus when? A

What? The statement was made. Who was it made, by? I think Sergeant Brian Neus. And that statement was made there by Sergeant

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When we were done with the measurements the

last thing that was asked for was her cup size, and she gave it to me. I don't remember what it was now. I wrote

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it on the form and that started the joking and carrying on between Sergeant Neus and I think -- I'm trying to think

what his name was, that corporal was there. Q As part of the measurement process for female

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employees is it necessary to determine their cup size? A It is necessary to determine the cup size to

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build body armor for female officers. Q Golden? A I asked of it any female that I had measured. So you specifically asked that of Officer

It's on the form. Q Well, I -- you can elaborate all you want,

but my question to you is Officer Golden that day in that room did you ask her her cup size?
A
Yes, I did.

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Q

And what was her response?

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MS. HERBST: THE WITNESS: Q

Objection.

Foundation.

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I don't know at that moment. Who else was in the room when

BY MR. MARTIN:

Sergeant Neus made this comment about cup size? A I'm trying to think of the corporal that was There was more than one. When I went in to talk

to -- I found Officer Golden she was in the office with Sergeant Neus and somebody else and I told her what we were going to do and she walked out into the briefing room which is like this and took the measurements. MS. HERBST: When you said briefing room like

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this, you mean like the conference room we're in? THE WITNESS: Like this conference room we're

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in, squared off but about this size. Q BY MR. MARTIN: And present in the briefing

room at the time the measurements were made of Officer Golden was yourself, Officer Golden and Sergeant Neus as well then? A Q Yes, and somebody else. And the corporal you don't recall the name

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of?
A Q A Q I can't remember his name. Anyone else? I don't know. Who was present when you measured Officer

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Hebets? A Q A Q Officer Hebets and myself. No one else? They weren't in my office, no. And where did the measurements take place for

Officer Hebets? A In my office. MR. MARTIN: I'd like to just take a short

break if we could and I'll come back and I will be finishing up. Off the record. (Recess.) Q BY MR. MARTIN: Going back momentarily to the

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issue of the measurements you talked about Shelly Hebets and measuring her and I believe you said she had removed her shirt and that's to get an accurate measurement; correct? MS. HERBST: MR. MARTIN: THE WITNESS: Objection. Is that why? All officers would have to wear Form. Foundation.

a t-shirt to be properly measured for body armor. Q shirt?
A
Yes.

BY MR. MARTIN:

Rather than the uniform

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Q

Why is that?

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A

Well, because it has a badge and I.D. tags

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and pens and pencils and to get the measurements has to include -- you have to measure the base of the neck which They

the collar hides it from the front of the neck down.

have to have a gun belt on to get the proper measurements from the height because it has to be an inch and a half from the gun belt because when you sit down it would shove the body armor up into your throat. Q They have to have their uniform shirt off to

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get a proper measurement?

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Yes.
And have the gun belt on to get it an inch

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and a half above the gun belt? A Q Correct. Anything else they need to wear to get an

accurate measurement?
A Q That's it. When Officer Golden was measured for her vest

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did she have a uniform on? A I don't recall. I think she had dark pants

on and she had a t-shirt and whether she took something

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off to go out into the briefing room, I don't recall. Q Do you recall if she was six to seven months

pregnant at that time?
MS. HERBST: Objection. Foundation.

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used but she had to hold a gun belt around her waist to measure from the neck to the waist. Q When you measured Officer Golden did you ask

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her about her pregnancy? A Q Not at that time, no. Did you have any concern that it would throw

off the measurements and they wouldn't be accurate? A The only two measurements that were of

concern was from the neck to the gun belt from the front and the back. She would know what her chest size and

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waist size would be when she was was working on the street which that's what she told me. Q A So did you measure her or did you ask her? I measured -- I'd hold -- she would hold the

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top part of it, it was a rolled up ruler, and we would figure out where an inch and a half would be from the back and hold it where you put on the back and measure from an
inch and a half -MS. HERBST: When you are pointing can you

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just describe a little bit better.

You were pointing from

the back of your neck and you measure from the neck down
to the --

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Q

THE WITNESS:

From the collar bone on the

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BY MR. MARTIN:

Straight down vertically to

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an inch and a half above the gun belt; correct? A Q A waist. MR. WALKER: talking Hebets or Golden? MR. MARTIN: MR. WALKER: Q Right now Miss Golden. Okay. So the only two measurements Point of clarification. Are we That is correct. Was there any measurements around the chest? I don't remember that we did the chest or

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BY MR. MARTIN:

you did on Officer Golden was from the neck down to an inch and a half above the gun belt then in the back the
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same kind of vertical measurements; correct? A They were the two measurements I was taking.

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Whether or not we did the waist or the chest I don't remember on Officer Golden because she was pregnant. Q chest?
A
Yes.

Normally you would measure the waist and

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Q

And did you with Officer Hebets measure the

waist and chest? A Hebets. Q I assume these ballistic vests are meant to Chest, waist, front and back on Officer

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fit rather snugly; is that correct?

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A Q

That is correct. So the measurements have to be fairly precise

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on the officer? A The measurement as far as the waist and the

chest even on a man is what determines the size of cut that they will make on the body armor to where when worn it has elastic straps on the shoulders and two on each side to draw the body armor to the body. Q But going back to my question as far as

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measuring for the ballistic vest you wanted to be fairly precise when you did that because they fit close to the body; correct?
MS. HERBST: Objection. Form.

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THE WITNESS: mean by precise. Q BY MR. MARTIN:

I don't understand what you

Let my back up.

Precise

enough if an officer wore their uniform shirt you wouldn't
get an accurate enough measurement; is that right? Is

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that true? A Q That is correct. Have you discussed this litigation with Andy

Staubitz anytime since being served with the lawsuit? A We've had one meeting between Andy Staubitz our attorney. You don't need to say anything

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and his attorney --

MS. HERBST:

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A Q A

Approximately twice. When would that have been? I would have talked to Sergeant Reed on --

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for close to a year on almost a weekly basis but out of that only twice was there a discussion about the lawsuit. Q Do you recall what you discussed with

Sergeant Reed about the lawsuit? A Yes, I do know what I discussed with Sergeant

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Q A

What was that? That I did not feel I had done anything wrong

to either of the officers, that I've treated them like they were my daughters and I would do anything for them. And Sergeant Reed assured me that Officer Hebets told him on more than one occasion that they are not mad at me, they are just after the chief. Q Did you ever make any attempt to contact

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either Officer Golden or Officer Hebets after the lawsuit was served? A I have never contacted Officer Hebets. But I

did contact Officer Golden after I was hired by the Maricopa County Park Police because somebody told me that she only worked like two days a week out of the four-day week and there was another female officer that worked the other two, therefore, made it a week schedule for a

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position and that person had left the Capitol Police and they didn't know whether they would continue to let her work a two-day work schedule. And I called her maybe May

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or June of 2003 at her home and told her that Maricopa County Park Police were going to have a reserve program and if there's anything I could do to help her to keep up her certification that she could apply there and I could help her because they live in the northwest valley, and she said thank you very much. consideration. I appreciate that

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If I have a problem, I'll let you know.

And that's the last time I had a conversation with Officer Golden. Q And you thought that was in approximately

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June of 2003? A Q I believe so, May or June. And what is the name of the attorney or

attorneys that are representing you? A attorneys. I thought they were on the record of my Beth is one. MS. HERBST: THE WITNESS: . Staton. Q BY MR. MARTIN: And are you paying attorney's Becky. Becky Herbst and Georgia

fees for that representation? A No, I am not paying attorney's fees.

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Q A Q

Do you know if anyone is? I do not know. So you have no idea what arrangements have

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been made to compensate your attorneys?

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A

No, I do not.
MR. MARTIN: I don't have any other

questions. MR. WALKER: anyone wants to go first. I have a few. I don't know if

It's certainly your witness if

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you --
MR. MARTIN: MS. HERBST: will let Mike go first. EXAMINATION BY MR. WALKER: Q Mr. Corcoran, I am Mike Walker. I represent Do you have any? Depends on what Mike asks. I

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the State of Arizona in this litigation.

I think you and

I had a brief moment to introduce ourselves to each other prior to this deposition. I just have a couple follow-up

questions first and for the moment I want to take you back to the situation where you were measuring Officer Golden. Do you recall that conversation during the course of your deposition? A I remember the incident that he was referring

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to earlier, yes.

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Q

And I believe your testimony was that

initially when you approached Officer Golden she was in the sergeant's office with Sergeant Neus and a corporal whose name you could not remember; correct? A Q Correct. Have you had a chance to possibly recall the

name of that corporal? A Q A Q Corporal Burris. Corporal Burris? State Capitol Police. And all three of those individuals were in

Sergeant Neus 1 office?
A
Yes.

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Q

Could you briefly describe the layout of

where the sergeant's office are located around this briefing room that you referenced? A Using this room as a reference you would come

through a door from the hallway into a room that had a table almost this size. Q A And by this room? That would be the briefing room. (Discussion.) MR. WALKER: your artistic skills. (Deposition Exhibit Number 4 was marked for Mr. Corcoran, were going to test

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identification by the Reporter.) MR. WALKER:
Q

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Back on the record.
Mr. Corcoran, I'd like you to

BY MR. WALKER:

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take a look at Exhibit 4, if you might, which is in front
of you.

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A
Q A

Yes.
Can you identify Exhibit 4, sir? It is a drawing that I made showing the

briefing room and offices adjacent to that of the State Capitol Police. Q This is the briefing room where your

measurements of Officer Golden took place?

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A
Q

Yes.
I'd like you to specifically identify -- I

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believe it says my office?

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Yes.
And I take it that refers to your office when

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you were at Capitol Police?

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Yes.

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Q A Q
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Then storage? That was mine, too. You see the notation for lieutenant's office?
Yes.

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Q
A

Who was the lieutenant?
From time to time it was different people.

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Q

Did Officer Golden make any statements in

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response to their statements? A Q No. She usually never did.

Do you know if she is friends with Mr. Neus?

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A
Q

Yes.
Did you take it that Officer Golden was

offended by anything that Sergeant Neus or Mr. Burris were saying?
A
No, I did not.

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Q

You indicated that you had never supervised

anyone during your tenure at Capitol Police? A Police. Q Since you never supervised anyone I take it I never supervised anyone at State Capitol

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you never supervised Miss Hebets or Miss Golden at any time you were employed and they were employed at Capitol Police? A correct. Q You never had any authority to terminate I was never their supervisor, that is

their employment? A I never had authority to terminate anybody's

employment at the State Capitol Police. Q A Or dictate their assignments? Or dictate their assignments, no.

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Q

You also measured Officer Hebets, did you

not? A Q I did measure Officer Hebets, yes. It's my understanding that you measured in I believe there was the measurements of

addition to the --

the stomach but that you also measured her chest and waist; correct? A
yes.

The measurements taken of waist and chest,

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Q A

How did you measure her chest? We had a three-foot long roll-up tape and I

came around to her side and placed the tape around her back and she held it and moved it to whatever position would make the proper chest measurements for her and I closed them over to get what the measurements. Q A Q
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You were standing over to her side? From her side. Were you touching her breasts?
No.

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Q

Were you measuring Officer Hebets in a manner

that was in accordance with the training you received from the body armor company how to conduct measurements?
A
Yes, it was.

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Q

Had you ever received any training of other

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ways to conduct training or to conduct the measurements of

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females when measuring for body armor?
A
Yes.

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Q A

What were the alternative means of doing it? There were no alternative means. I have been

involved with female body armor from the time body armor has been invented and there was a large problem with the body armor and female officers at Phoenix Police Department and I was involved in that. Q Any complaints about the way you measured any

of those officers? A I never had a complaint. I measured as a

professionally trained person doing my job to get body armor for law enforcement. Q The street survival seminar do you recall

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providing testimony about the shorts incident?
A
Yes.

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Q

Can you briefly describe the reason you were

going to this street survival seminar? A I helped write for the street survival

seminar two out of their three books in law enforcement and the owners at the time of Caliber Press were personal friends of mine who attempted to have me teach for them and leave the department from the city. And so nothing

from street survival was ever put out by them that they did not run by me first.

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Q you dressed? A boots. Q

When you showed up at this seminar how were

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In a sport shirt and long dress pants and

Were the other members of Capitol Police

present dressed professionally? MR. MARTIN: THE WITNESS: first two days. Q BY MR. WALKER: So it was the third day she Objection. Yes. Form.

So was Officer Hebets the

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did not dress professionally I take it? MR. MARTIN: MR. WALKER: THE WITNESS: Objection. Form.

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You can answer. On the third day when she

showed up that was my only comments. Q the shorts?
A
Yes.

BY MR. WALKER:

That's when she was wearing

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Q

Do you recall Officer Reed making any comment

to you about Officer Hebets' dress that day? A Q I do not recall. You don't recall if he made any comment to

you indicating after looking at her that it surprised him that was sanctioned dress, anything to that effect? A When we saw Officer Hebets walk up to us

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Q

After you had been going to Capitol Police

did there come a point in time when you stopped going to the Capitol Police building?

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A
Q

Yes.
Was there an instance where you had been

asked not to go to the Capitol Police building by someone?

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A
Q

Yes.
Who asked you not to come to the Capitol

Police building anymore? A Q A Chief Staubitz. Do you recall what he told you? He said that -- what was it. I don't know

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the exact words.

That all of the problems that they are

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would like it as a personal favor to him if I would not come over there. Q
up.

Did he say or did you take it --

back this

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At the time that he asked you to do this had the lawsuit been filed? A I don't know. I never knew anything about

about the lawsuit. Q And after he asked you not to go to Capitol

Police you stopped going there?
A
Yes, I did.

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MR. WALKER:

I believe that's all the

questions I have for you right now. MR. BIDDLE: I think I have two.

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EXAMINATION

I'm Steve Biddle, Mr. Corcoran.

I represent My two

Andy Staubitz in this matter. questions are pretty simple.

We've met before.

How much time was there

between the measurements of Bobbie Golden that you took and the measurements of Shelly Hebets that you took? A If I recall as soon as I was done with the

measurements of Officer Golden Officer Hebets had showed up for second shift and so probably within minutes. Q Okay. And you also were talking about the You said Miss Hebets was dressed How was she

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street survival course.

the first two days in an appropriate manner. dressed the first two days, do you recall? A Q

I think she had pants and blouses on. Okay. The third day she had shorts on. What

else was she wearing, do you remember? A Q you remember? A I don't recall. I don't recall. Some sort of top.

Was the top appropriate, inappropriate, or do

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MR. BIDDLE: MS. HERBST: I'll be back. MR. MARTIN: (Recess.) MS. HERBST: MR. BIDDLE: I'm sorry.

That's all. Can you give me one minute and

Sure.

I don't have any questions. I need to ask you a couple more,

Again, it's just clarification from your

earlier testimony.
EXAMINATION BY MR. BIDDLE:

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Q

And I'm trying to figure out more about the That's what we're going to focus on right

measurements.

«

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now, measurement situations. When Miss Hebets came in and you saw her and you needed -- you knew you needed to measure her was

Bobbie still there, to the best of your memory?
A I think she was still there.

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Q office. A

Okay.

And you measured Shelly in your

Why didn't you measure her in the briefing room? Because Officer Hebets walked in my office

and put her gun belt down and took off her shirt and took the measurements there. Q No real reason.

Did you take the measurements with the door

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open or closed?

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