Free Brief in Support of Motion - District Court of Colorado - Colorado

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 1 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11122/2005

Camille Me1onakis-Kurz, et a1 v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO
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Camile Melonakis-Kurz, 4 individually and on

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VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF BRUCE ALVIN ROBERTS

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behalf of other

5 similarly situated

employees,
6

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10 Inc" 12 Defendant. 13
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Plaintiff, (p'" ~7 vs. Civil Action tOo' 1 0 8 Heartland Home Finance,;-\\Î 9 No, 03-MK-2485 9 ~ 11
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The Videotaped Deposition of BRUCE ALVIN ROBERTS ADVANCED LEGAUSTEFFAN & STAUFFER, L TO 411 Seventh Avenue, Suite 1140

November 22, 2005 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is Tuesday, November 22nd, 2005 at 8:40 a,m. The videotape operator is Nancy Donnelly representing Steffan & Stauffer. We are located at 411 7th Avenue, Suite

1140, Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219,
We are here to videotape the deposition of Bruce Roberts to be used at time of trial or for any other reason in the United States District Court for the District of Colorado, Civil Action Number 03-MK-2485. We have Camille Melanakis-Kurz individually and on behalf of other similarly situated employees, Plaintiff, versus Heartland Home Finance Incorporated, Defendant. Will counsel please identify themselves and whom they

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Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania 15219
November 22, 2005 8:40 a,m,

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represent.
MS. HATFIELD: Beth Hatfeld representing Heartland Home Finance, MR. POCKRASS: Steven Pockrass also representing Heartland Home
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APPEARANCES

1 Finance.

2 3 ON BEHALF OF THE PLAINTIFF:
4 Jill M. Novak, Attorney-at-Law

2 MS. NOVAK: Jill Novak of
3 Nichols Kaster & Anderson representing

4 the Plaintiff today.

5 NICHOLS, KASTER & ANDERSON, PLLP 6 4600 IDS Center
7 80 South 8th Street
8 Minneapolis, Minnesota 55402

5 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: At this
6 time the court reporter will administer

7 the oath,

8 COURT REPORTER: Raise your
9 right hand, sir. Do you swear to tell 10 the truth, the whole truth and nothing 11 but the truth so help you God?

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Telephone: 612.338.1919 Fax: 612.338.4878 Email: novak~nka.com

ON BEHALF OF THE DEFENDANT: Steven F. Pockrass, Esquire Beth Hatfeld, Attorney-at-Law ICE MILLER
One American Square, Box 82001

12 THE WITNESS: I do. 13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Please
14 proceed.

Indianapolis, Indiana 46282 Telephone: 317.236.2100
Fax: 317.236.2219 Email: pockrass~icemiller.com

15 BRUCE ALVIN ROBERTS, a witness herein, 16 having been first duly sworn, was 17 examined and testified as follows: 18 DIRECT EXAMINATION
19 BY MS, HATFIELD:
20 a. Can you state your full name

20
21

21 for the record, please?
22 A. Bruce Alvin Roberts.
23 a. And spell your last name?

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Email: beth.hatfeld~icemiller.com

24 A. R.Q.B-E.R.T-S.
25 a. Have you ever given a

1 (Pages 1 to 4)

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 2 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/22/2005

Camile Melonakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
Page 9
1

Page t i
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A. Q.

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No. When were you employed by

A.

I was a manager until April of
Okay, and what branches did you

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3

'04.
Q.
A.

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5 6

Heartland Home Finance? A. January 1st, or, excuse me,
January 9th, 2002.
Q, A.

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5

work at?

Pittsburgh, designated

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8

Through? April of 2004. MS, HATFIELD: May I have

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Pittsburgh Number Two. Which is over at Foster Plaza Holiday Drive, Pittsburgh.
Q.

Okay. We are going to kind of

(WHEREUPON, Exhibit 1 was marked for identification.) 12 EXAMINATION 13 BY MS. HATFIELD: 14 Q. You have been handed what's 15 been marked as Exhibit 1, which in the 16 bottom right-hand corner, you can see 17 that there's a 002008 number. That is 18 just a number on the document for 19 identification purposes. If you look at 20 the bottom of the document, is that your
11

9 10

this marked as Exhibit 1?

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10
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work backwards through your employment with Heartland Home Finance. A. Okay.
Q. As the branch manager, were you

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13

14 15 16 17
18 19

a supeNisor? A. Yes.

The office held nine loan officers, 50 anywhere between four and
nine loan officers, a processor, and a

Q. A.

And who did you supeNise?

secretary.
Q. Okay, do you remember any of those people's names? A. Q. A.
Sure. Yes.

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21

21

22 23 24 25

signature? A. Yes.
Q,

Okay, And did you sign this

document? A. Yes.
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22 23 24 25

Who are they?

Frank Armao was a processor. Nicole Bailey was a secretary. Ray
Page 12

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2 3 4
5

It's dated 11/12/04. Okay. Have you read this document before? A. Yes.
Q,

Q. A.

On what date?

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4
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11

Well, I told them by phone and I do recall a mistake being on there. Q. Okay, what mistake is that?
A. On number two, it says I only

Q. A.

Did you draft it?

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Pfoff was a loan offcer. Roy Agostini was a loan officer. Devon Givner was a loan officer. Chuck Shelatz was a loan officer. I can give you first names right now, last names, Jill was one girl's name.
Q. A.

Loan offcer?

Yes, loan officer. Brian. Pat

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Morgan. Kip Irwin, i believe. J
believe Bill Wyant was a loan officer at the time. I'm sure there's more that will come to me, i just, as many as i can think of right now. Q. Okay. Were all of these
individuals employed the whole time as

worked from January 1, '02 to June 1,
'02, that is incorrect. It should be
April

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

27th, '04. That was time, that

January 1 J '02 to June 1, '02 was a

time being as a processor.
Q. So you were a loan processor with Heartland Home Finance?
A. From January of 2002 until June of 2002.

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loan offcers while you were a branch manager?
A.

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Q. Okay, and then in June 2002, did you take another position? A. June 2002 was the start of being a loan officer until July of 2000,

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2003.
Q.

Okay, and then in July 2003?

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Turnover was high there, so, yeah, i mean, the one guy, Brian, was there maybe two months, three months.

Q. A.

No. Did they come and go?

So turnover was high, i mean, guys were
in and out of there.
Q.

Why did you leave Heartland

3 (Pages 9 to 12)

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 3 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/2212005

Camile Me1onakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
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Page 29

Page 31
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they are going into, yes.
Q. What is your next step after you look at the application, and you get the credit report?
A. Basically, you know, try to see if you can make a loan out of it. First of all you need to get them pre-

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person into a program depending on, you know, whatever I thought the best fit for, you know, the best financial, I should say tool, or mortgage would fit for them. MS, HATFIELD: We're now
going to go off the record. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We will now go off the record.

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approved.
Q.

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Pre-approved for a certain

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11

program? A. Well, it depends, I mean, these
questions are very vague, and the

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answers are very vague on here. Yeah,

they need pre-approved, after you get an application and you check the credit,
you are going to have to put them into

a, you know, a program and try to get them closed, you know, get an appraisal
order on it, get it into processing, and ultimately get it closed. You know.
How many programs did you have to choose from?
Q,

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(WHEREUPON, A Recess was held.) THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are now back on the record, please proceed,
EXAMINATION BY MS. HATFIELD: Q, Thank you. Right before our break, we were talking about the different types of loans that you had
available. There are 15-year loans, 20-

year loans, 30- year loans, is that

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21

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21

correct? A. Yes.
Q. And within those, you had mentioned earlier that there were three

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i believe there was three, three programs through the nonconforming
A.

division. Conforming division had, I
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types of nonconforming, or three types of conforming?
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mean, I don't know, there was a couple programs there, too. It's changed since i have been there. i can't really give

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you how many programs, i mean just.
MS, NOVAK: i don't want you
to guess either. THE WITNESS: Yeah, I don't know, let's just say, I'm not going to guess, to be honest with you, but i know when I was there was three nonconforming programs, there might have been two nonconforming programs, so what Heartland Banking supplied. EXAMINATION BY MS. HATFIELD: Q. How do you decide which program best fits your customer's needs?
A.

4
5 6 7 8 9

Sure. I mean there's a lot of, there's programs there, there's a lot of variations you can do. Like you suggested, 30-year, 20-year, 1S-year,
A.
those are amortizations. B0120s is what
you call to equal

100 percent of a

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value. So I mean, there is a lot of different things you can, a lot of different variations.
Q. And you choose among these different programs depending on what your customer needs?
A.

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That's not determined by me,

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but that, well, i mean, that is determined by me, but, actually, you have to get pre-approved on it, so with
that, we had to send

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I mean, i don't choose, we

submit for what they qualify for. i mean, you know, i don't get to pick what loan they get to take. Their
credit history and income get to choose what they qualify for.
But based on their credit history, and maybe some of the things they told you that they wanted, whether it be a lower monthly payment, or, some of their goals is what i would call them, you look at the programs and decide which might fi their needs?
Q.

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21

22 23 24 25

over pre-approvals,

and get those pre-approved first through

the banking division. So, basically,
it's my job to kind of guide that

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8 (Pages 29 to 32)

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 4 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11122/2005

Camile Melonakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
Page 33
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Page 35
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A.

Right. Right, exactly.

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Q. Is it possible that maybe more than one program might meet their needs?
A. Q.

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3

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Sure, yes.

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Do you take the options then and present them to the customer so they

know, you could come in and work until then. Branch hours were, I don't think there were hours set, but I know most everybody knew that it opened at nine a.m. You could come in earlier, you

know. But if you wanted to say set
hours, you know, nine to eight, that's a

choose?
Yes, it's ultimately their decision, it's their life, their financial decision. There's sellng involved as well, you have to educate
A.

big span.
Q. A.
Q,

Did you set hours for your loan

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offcers?
Yes.
And what were the hours that you told them they needed to work? A. They needed to be there nine

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your customer.
That leads me to my next question actually. When you take these options to the customer, do you educate
Q.

them?
Of course. About what each program is? Of course. Q. Did your loan offcers, when you were a branch manager, did they come to you for assistance?
A. Q. A.

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to, nine to seven. It was either, it was like, um, that was something that me as a manager, I, I guess it was kind of like they had to put eight hours in.

All right. So, whatever your span of
eight hours, and an additional lunch

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21

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A.

Yes.

Q, What types of questions might they ask you?

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Page 34

hour as well, so nine hours total. Okay. That was the time that I was there. I was there basically when the

doors opened unti, I was the last one
out as a manager. So, you know, if you
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1

A.

What can I do with this

1

wanted to come in at ten to six shift,

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3

borrower, the questions they ask basically pertain to their, you know,

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3

that, you know, that's fine. Eight
hours and a lunch, put your lunch in

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5

their work. So, you know, they could ask appraisal questions, they could ask
title questions, they could ask underwriting condition questions, they could ask me credit, you know, explain a

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there.
Q. A. Q. A.

The lunch was unpaid?

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Yes, lunch was unpaid.
It was an hour?

Yeah.

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credit report to them. They could ask
me, you know, a multitude of questions.

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Where can we take this loan, how can we
get it approved, you know, how can we get from point A to point B, kind of

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thing. Where do you want to go to
lunch, you know, all kind of questions.
Q.

What were your branch hours?

A. Branch hours were from nine to, basically, as late as you could, you

know, they didn't, the office I believe
closed there at 11 p.m. so you couldn't

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Q. And you said you were the last one out. A. Uh-huh. Q. You were always the last one to

leave the offce?
A. Q,
Usually, yes.

And you said you worked from

nine to six?
A. My hours personally? 15 that what you are asking me, as a manager?

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21

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21

Q. A.

As a branch manager?

My hours, from nine until
at

enter or exit the building. You could,

probably about eight. If I came in

22 but you would be, there is a key, it 23 was open, I think, until 11 p.m., the 24 building. So loan hours had the abilty 25 to work, you know, that time. You

22 23 24 25

ten, I was probably there after eight

o'clock. I mean I put the hours in as
a manager, I'm also an hour away from

work so my days were long.

9 (Pages 33 to 36)

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 5 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/22/2005

Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
Page 37
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Page 39
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But you told your loan offcers they had to put in eight hours a day?
Q,
A.

their own hours on their time sheet?
A. Q. A.

2
3

Yes.
Did they sign their time sheet?

Yes, they were to put in eight
lunch

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5

hours a day and an additional

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6

hour. So, I will be honest with you,

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again, this is a management issue, above
me, is, you know, these guys needed to

Yes, I believe they did every day. They were required to, whether they did or not, I'm not sure. I can't

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recall from that.
Q.

make their production, and there was no
real set number of hours, you know, look

What about Saturday, were you

open on Saturdays?

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through employee manuals, look through
handbooks, there are no real set hours in there, we are open nine to five, you work nine to five, those aren't in there. So it was basically at the

A.

The offce was open on

Saturdays, you were allowed to go in.

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discretion, the job needed to get done.
So it was based on the direction that you gave them?
Q. A.

Right. Well, not that i gave

them, this was, you know, based on the

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21

direction that, you know, I was being
told, hey, you have to have these guys, they have to, you know, to work their

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21

That wasn't a mandatory thing, though.
Q, A.

As the branch manager, did you

work Saturdays?

Here and there I did, yes. Not

every Saturday, but I worked, you know,

when needed, if there was, excuse me,
too much work there for me during the week that i didn't handle, I would go

in on Saturday.
Q. Did you say you worked ten Saturdays during the time you were a

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job, they have to do what they are
supposed to do.
Q.

Okay, Did you have your loan
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branch manager? A. Yeah, I could say that. It's
an estimated number.
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offcers complete time sheets? A. Yes.
Q. And where did you keep your time sheets? A. On the offce door, at my

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Q, A.

Around ten?

Yeah. If it was one a month,

would have had July, August, September,
November, December, January, February, March, April, that is ten, so i could see about one a month. I can remember months when there were almost two.
Q. When you were working on Saturdays, were your loan offcers in

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5

office door which was open all the time.
Q, Did you send those completed time sheets to someone? A. Yes.

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Who? I believe, I had to remember the name here, i believe it was Tom Knowles, if I'm not mistaken, but it wasn't, I know it was compliance
Q. A.

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there?
A.
Q. A.

A few. Not all the time. You
Who do you remember seeing?

division. Every Monday morning we'd
come in, I'd come in, and have, usually on Friday or Monday, if I came in on Saturday I would have my hours totaled

up and submitted.
Q. A.

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know, once, one or two here and there.
Devon Givner would come in on Saturdays, Ray Pfoff would be on Saturdays. If they were splitting hours

up, on four hours Friday and four hours
on Saturday, the majority of them would be there. They would be there. You know, it is not like they didn't come and then they would be in trouble. That they would be there. If it was, if, if it was an optional Saturday,

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Did you total the hours?

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Yes.

22 Q. You totaled hours based on what 23 was written? 24 A. Based on what was written.
25
Q,

And each loan offcer wrote in
.

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optional people would have been Ray
Pfoff, Roy Agostini, these are the most

10 (Pages 37 to 40)

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 6 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/22/2005

Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
Page 41
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Page 43
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recent guys too. I mean, there were

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3

others when i started as a manager.
But Devon Givner, like I said, Chuck

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3

4
5

6 7 8
9

Shelatz would come in on Saturdays. Probably about the main at the end there.
Q,

4
5

Not every day just an example, okay, but yes, I knew, he might be one actually, you know, had put hours on there that stayed 12 hours.
A.

Q.
A.

So when you added up the hours,

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7

did they come up to over 40?

You said sometimes they would

Sometimes, yes.
Did you turn in those time

split their hours, work four hours on
Friday and four hours on Saturday?
A.

8 9

Q,

sheets?
A. Q.

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11

Yes.
Is that to keep it under 40

10
11

Yes.

Q.

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hours?
A.

No, that's to keep it at 40

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Did you tell your loan offcers to accurately write down on their time sheets the hours they were working?
A. Yes. Let me explain one thing to you here. This isn't a question you are asking is, I was told what to do and have my loan officers do what i was

hours, on time sheets I should say,

yeah.
Q, What did you mean when you said on time sheets? A. Well, if a person worked, let's

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say, for example, let's say someone worked 11 hours on Monday, 12 hours on

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told. This was not my company, so I
didn't, I didn't basically make the rules, the rule's already set, I'm in a system, I had to follow that system, okay? If someone worked 30 hours that

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Tuesday, ten hours on Wednesday, another

22 ten hours on Thursday, what is that, 23 over 40 hours? They still come in on 24 Friday, stay for four hours, and then 25 Saturday they might not, you know, if it
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week, first of all, they would, how
should I say, they would be notified that, you know, they worked less than
Page 44

was a split, and when I say split, I

1

their amount of hours they were supposed

2
3

mean four hours on Friday and four hours
Saturday, then they, you know, they

4
5 6 7 8 9 10
11

might have come in on Friday. For the
time they were supposed to. And then Saturday they might not come in. If you had your other employees working

your eight hour days and then they split a four days, four hours and four hours.
Then that is what I mean by that. So, for example, the one example I was giving you, I can tell you a person who did that was Ray Pfoff. He would put

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

his eight hours on a time sheet, and he would still be there working.
Q.

hours, I tried to make sure their hours 4 were strict on their time sheet, meaning 5 that if they worked 50 hours, you should 6 put 50 hours on your time sheet. Okay, 7 but when I submitted that over on 8 Mondays, and I want to say it is Tom 9 Knowles but I can't remember, I just had 10 a fax number, I was supposed to fax it 11 over, and I would, for maybe the first 12 couple of months it wasn't a big deal, 13 but I think towards the end of the time 14 that Bob Janda was the general and the
15 16 17 18 19

2 3

to work. Okay? If a person worked 45

time that Nassef came in as general
manager, you know, I would get calls from them, you know, on Monday or Tuesday, saying these guys are working more than 40 hours, you need to show 40

Did you know that your loan

offcers were not putting the actual
time they worked down on the time

sheets?
A. Q. A. Q.

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Rephrase that, did I know .Sure. That they worked?

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21

hours on the time sheet. The reason that that was there, they were tellng
me was it is a compliance issue, and that's basically what it was left at.
Q. Did they tell you that the employees need to work only 40 hours?

Did you know, you said that Ray Pfoff would do that, he would presumably

work 11 hours Monday, 12?

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11 (Pages 41 to 44)

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 7 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/2212005

Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
Page 49
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Page 5 i
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4
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If you look at paragraph number four, the first sentence has to do when you were a loan offcer. But if you look at the next sentence, talks about as a manager. You were required to
Q.

there?
Yes, it is. Q, If you flp through each of the pages before that, are those your initials on the bottom right corner?
A. A.

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3

4
5

have your staff record no more than 40
hours. And you said you, the next sentence says you spoke to your

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Yes.
Of each page?

Q. A.

Yeah, those look to be all

managers. A. Okay.
Q, A.

mine.
Q, If you flip to DEF 07895. You will see number 6.

Your managers being who?

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Bob Janda, and then Nassef

Gurgis. And ultimately it ended up
being, i want to say it's Tom Knowles, but I can't remember if it is him or

not. He was, it was the guy that was
compliance that received all the time sheets on the fax on Monday morning. And I ended up getting phone calls from

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MS, HATFIELD: We need to
take a recess for a minute, please. THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We will now go off the record.
(WHEREUPON, An Off the Record Discussion was held.)

THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This is the beginning of tape two, We are now
back on the record, Please proceed.

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him. Basically.
Now do you remember when you had these conversations with him?
Q. A. Q. A.

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MS. HATFIELD: Thank you,
EXAMINATION

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Sure. Vaguely, but yes.
Do you remember the dates?

No, i don't remember dates.
Page 50

22 23 24 25

BY MS, HATFIELD: Q. We have been talking about conversations you had with your regional

Page 52
1

1

Q.

I have a document marked as

managers, Bob Janda and Nassef and you

2
3

Exhibit 2. I will have that handed to you.
(WHEREUPON, Exhibit 2 was marked for
identification.) Q. I'm going to represent to you that this is an employment agreement for

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
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4
5

think possibly Nolton? A. Knowles. i don't know a Nolton, i think it was Knowles.
Q. Bob Janda was your regional manager when you first became a branch

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manager?
A.

you?
A. Q, A.

Sure, he was a regional manager

Sure.
Do you recognize it? Yes, i do.
If you look to the, in the

since i started there, actually.
Q. And I think earlier you said that he was a excellent manager?
A.

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11

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Q.

bottom right-hand corner, should be
number DEF 07892,
A.

Okay.

Q. The pages should all be numbered consecutively through -A. May I ask a question?

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22 23 24 25

DEF 07908. Yes. Is that a Defendant number, is that what that is saying? Q, Yes, DEF is for Defendant. If you flp to DEF 07904. A. Okay. Q. Is that your signature on
Q. A.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

I don't know, from my

standpoint i thought he was great, he helped me out a lot so he was, you
know, he was one of the reasons why i became a manager because he helped me out a lot. Q. And you said you had
conversations with him about your employees producing and their time?
A.

20
21

That seems like a normal

22 23 24 25

conversation of producing. He was very,

you know, driven to, you know, ramp up production.
Q.

Did you have conversations with

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Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 8 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/22/2005

Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
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Page 95
1

2
3

have seen it happen before, it would come out of the settement statement.
Do you know who ended up paying for those unpaid appraisals?
Q.
A.

2
3

4
5 6

4
5 6 7 8

That, obviously, how that worked out eventually was, you had to submit to Heartland and get a turn down from Heartland before you could submit it to
A.

I really don't know. I mean,

7
8 9

left when I was there as a manager. I mean, i turned those in, and I'm sure Heartland ended up paying for them. I don't know
I'm sure there were some still

another lender, that is eventually what had happened. It got to the point where, as I started as a processor, that

10
11

if the bill ever got sent out to the loan officer who was responsible for

9 10
11

was going on, things kind of changed over those two years. People were stil submitting loans to outside lenders when
they weren't supposed to. Then we cut off the lenders completely and everything went to Heartland. I don't know if production dropped then or what.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

doing that, i don't know. So no, to
answer your question, i don't know, I can assume, but i don't know who paid for those.
One thing I understand is that you could also send loans, sometimes if
Q.

20
21

certain conditions were met, to outside, outside of an HHF product. Is that correct? A. Let me start from the

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Then I believe i still think, basically when i became a manager, the loan
officers that i had were not, didn't even know about other lenders. We

basically brought people in and trained
them from the ground up, and they had no idea about other lenders really, so, I mean, all they knew was Heartland products. Go back in time a little

20
21

22 23 24 25

beginning, give me a few minutes here on
this answer. When I

started with

Heartland as a processor, policies were different. Okay. In regards to hours,
Page 94

22 23 24 25

bit, before then when I was a loan
officer, people knew about other lenders
Page 96

1

2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10
11

policies were different. In regards to draws, policies were different. They
virtually didn't exist. When i first started, loan officers could take their

1

2 3

and wanted to use other lenders, basically does that answer your
question? i don't know. Q. When you say people, you mean
loan offcers? A. Loan officers, I'm sorry. Q. That's all right. And loan
offcers could use, inthe beginning,

loans wherever they could, they were
required to close deals. And deals were being closed. As banking division, how

4 5
6 7

say, became adequate to handle more loans, the flow of loans going to other lenders were, was cut down towards the flow of what was going to Heartland,
should I

8
9

other products?
A.

10
11

Yeah, when I started back in

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

meaning that Heartland wanted as much business as they could get. It only makes sense, that is why they are in business. The problem was, i don't

2002, loan officers could basically come 12 and go as they pleased, and they could 13 take their loans wherever they wanted.
14 15 16 17 18 19 20

Their goal was to close loans. Basically, Heartland operated as a

think they could handle the flow. This
much that was coming in. And therefore, all the other, you know, people were still using brokers. You know.
Q. A.

broker operation, broker loans to lenders.
Q.

So what factored into the loan

20
21

Who made the decision?

That's an upper management

22 23 24 25

decision.
Q. No, who made the decision whether to go outside of an offer, a
non-Heartland product?

offcer's decision, even yours as a loan offcer, about where to go? 21 A. That goes back to the process 22 of doing the loan, like where do you 23 get your best financial, I should say, 24 where is the best option for the 25 borrower, where is the easiest to get a

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Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 9 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/22/2005

Camille Me1onakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
Page 10 5
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Page i 07
1

decision on that. You know, that was
up to him.

Q,

Could you lock in interest

2 3

2 3

rates?
A.

4
5

Q. Does the appraisal policy say that a branch manager has discretion

4
5 6 7 8 9 10
11

about whether to payor not?
A.

Q. A. Q, A.

Yes. And that would bind Heartland? When you say you, as in me
As a loan offcer,

6 7

Yeah, it does say has

personally, as a loan offcer?
Depends on with what lender.

discretion, doesn't say they have 8 discretion, they can't make a decision 9 on it. But it does say that if a 10 client is unable to pay for the 11 appraisal, the only options are to send
12 13 14 15 16 17 18
19

First of all, if it is a lender outside

of Heartland, usually when I was a loan
officer, the processor had to lock that.

the deal to a lender that can handle the appraisal, or the loan officer can

prepay the appraisal with a personal check.
Well, obviously, it had to be an exception if it closed. i mean, it went to, went to, probably had to go to Gil to get approval for that.
You have to take that up with Gil on that one.
Q, Does the policy that you have in front of you -Page 106

Q, A.

It says no exceptions?

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

To lock rates as a loan offcer, it
became automated, so you could, actually, as a loan officer, lock your own rates, near the end of my term as a

loan officer. i don't remember if we
had to call it in or something, how it

originally started. Could you go on
line do it all the time, i can't

20
21

20
21

remember.
Q. Do you still have the one of the closing or the -A.

22 23 24 25

Q. A.

Policy says no exceptions?

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No, i don't have it.

Q, The settlement statement in front of you?

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1

2 3

Yeah, it does say there are no exceptions on that policy.
A. Q. A. Q.

2 3

Thank you.

4 5
6

You are welcome.

4
5 6

7
8

Let's go to the time that you were a loan offcer. Working our way backwards, which, by my notes, June 2002

No. Q. Handing you a document to refresh your recollection, and also, to ask you a few questions. There is only one copy so i have to kind of lean over
A.

here.
A. Q.

7
8 9

9 10
11

through July 2003? A. Yep, that is about right. Q. Were you a good loan offcer? A. Yes.
Q.

Go ahead. Sorry. The borrower was Duane

10
11

Stewart? A. Uh.huh.
Q. A.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

What made you a good loan

offcer?
A. Q. A.

I produced.
How much did you produce?

I couldn't give you an exact

number, but, you know, over 20,000 a few times, two, three, maybe four. Three
times maybe. Consistent ten to $20,000R producer.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Do you remember this loan? i do.

Q. Can you just walk me through the different fees, the application fee to Heartland Home Finance, which is line

20
21
~

20
21

22 23 24 25

Q. A.

Is this per month?

Per month. This is total fees.

Zero to ten, you know, probably the same amount of share I had at ten to 20. Just depended.

22 23 24 25

812, what is that? A. That would have been, should have been an origination fee. I would have to say it's an error somewhere in there. I don't see, i would be willng to bet that there was an origination fee on here, and for some reason, he might
have been short to close, cut some

and we had to

fees on there. And leave some

application fee on there, that's

27 (Pages 105 to 108)

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-35

Filed 01/31/2006

Page 10 of 10

Bruce Alvin Roberts 11/22/2005

Camile Melonakis-Kurz, et al v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.
Page 109
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Page III
1

probably what I'd be willing to bet on
th at.

you know, it's going to be hard to do,
first of alL.

2
3

2

4
5 6 7 8

Q. A.

Who decides?

3 4
5

I don't even know why there is

no appraisal fee on there. That's clear

as fault on that one and the manager.
When was this date? July 30th, '02, so

6 7 8 9

Q, So when you set your origination fee, you said it makes sense to the borrower, what kind of analysis did you do to determine what origination fee you would charge? A.

9 10
11

i was still a loan offcer. That probably would have been under Darlene,
maybe, towards her end of the term.
Q,

Well, I was brought up

basically that, you know, do a service
first and you'll get paid for it. If you do it well enough, you're going to really get paid for it. So, in my

10
11

Let's talk about origination

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

fees.
A. Q, A.

Okay. What is that? Origination fee, that is

basically the fee that is paid by a
borrower for work done or services

provided.
Q,

To the loan officer or

20
21

22 23 24 25

Heartland? A. Well, it would be to Heartland, but in, you know, actuality, there is a

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20
21

loans, I made sure I provided service to
my borrower, and then got paid for it. Some loans, obviously on this one, I remember me, I think I cut the fee on this because this guy really needed help and I had to help him out. You know, it is kind of like each loan is different, it's just like each person is

split of commission, obviously. But
yeah, it would be paid to Heartland, it

should all be paid to Heartland.
Page 1 10

22 23 24 25

different. So it is, you know, no one works for free, all right. So, I mean,
I wouldn't do a loan absolutely for free. I have, I don't think I would ever do that again. You know, it is to
Page 112

1

Q. A. Q. A.

Is there a set origination fee
No. Who decides what to charge?

1

2 3

that you charge?

2
3

4
5

4
5 6

6 7
8

9 10
11

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Well, management always wanted to get at least two points, try to get three percentage points, meaning one percentage point of the dollar loan amount. That compared to, that I would believe, would be, I guess there is no real policy on that. I don't know. There was never really any policy, you

the discretion of the loan officer to decide what the fees are. And Heartland obviously wanted fees up, because that is how they make an income. You know, there was never policy on it, it was always kind of rule of thumb to get,

7
8 9 10
11

you know, try for two, maybe one on the front one, on the back, or either
combination of how that worked out. Or three points if you could, was really

good. But, it is hard because each
person is different. So, you know, it is actually, you don't really get to set that fee. The competition and competitiveness out in the world. You know, if i put $7,000 on origination fee, that may not go through because, number one, my borrower's going to shop

just, obviously, you want to average
somewhere between two and three

percentage points on the loan. As a
loan officer, they know that the higher

their origination, excuse me, the higher their fees are, the higher their
commission would be on the deaL. But you have to be fair to the borrower, and you have to be, you can't discriminate against any of those

20
21

21

22 23 24 25

obviously, but it has to make sense.
For me to do a deal, a loan, it has to make sense for my borrower, or there's,

to do it for less. You really don't get to decide what your fee is. It is 22 kind of like, you know, it wil weigh 23 itself out.
Q. But you have, maybe range is the wrong word. You have a feel for
28 (Pages 109 to 112)

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20

me and the competition out there's going

24 25