Free Brief in Support of Motion - District Court of Colorado - Colorado

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-26

Filed 01/31/2006

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IN THE UNITED STATES

DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO

CAMILLE MELONAKIS-KURZ,

etc., et al.,
vs.

Plaintiffs,
Case No.
03-CV-2485 (MSK/PAC)

HEARTLAND HOME FINANCE,

INC. ,

Defendant.

tQ)f?Y

THE DEPOSITION OF DANIEL KOPRONICA TUESDAY, DECEMBER 20, 2005

The deposition of DANIEL KOPRONICA, called by
the Defendant for examination pursuant to the
Federal Rules of Civil Procedure, taken before me,

the unders igned, Darlene Vance, Registered

Professional Reporter and Notary Public wi thin and
for the State of Ohio, taken at the offices of Cady
Repdrting Services, 1220 Illuminating Building,

Cleveland, Ohio, commencing at 9:06 a.m., the day
and date above set forth.

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Daniel Kopronica 12/20/2005 Camile Melonakis-Kurz, et aL. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

1

Q

Okay.

5

Mr. Kopronica, have you ever had your

2

deposi tion taken before?
A
Q

3
4

Yes, I have.

Well, it will probably be similar to that.

I'm

5 6
7
8 9

going to ask you questions and you'll provide

answers to my questions.

I fat any point you

don't understand what I'm asking you, just let
me know and I' 11 try to rephrase it so you can

understand it.
A
Q

Okay?

10
11 12

Okay.
I don't anticipate I'm going to take very long
with your deposition today, but if you feel

13
14

that you need a break at any point, just let me
know and we'll take a break.
A
Q

Okay?

15

All right.
And then the other thing is when I'm as king you

16
17

questions, make sure you avoid using words such
as uh-huh; make sure you use words such as yes
or no so that it's easy to read in the

18

19

20 21
22
A
Q

transcript.
Okay.

Okay?

All right.
Yes.

You were employed by Heartland Home

23
24
A
Q

Finance; is that right?

25

I have your da tes of employment as June 23rd of

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1

1999 until March 18th of 2002.

Does tha t sound

2 3
4

accurate?
A
Q

That's correct.
Okay.
And what was your job during that time

5
6

frame?
A

I started out in 1989 as a loan officer, and
then I was a manager approximately two years
after that.

7
8

9

Q

So approximately what month did you become a
manager, do you recall?

10 11
12 13
14
A A
Q

No, actually, I don't.

Okay.

Do you recall for how long you were a

manager?
It was almost one full year.

About eleven

15

months.
Q

16
17 18

Sometime around March of 2001 you became a
manager up until March of 2002?

A
Q

That's correct.
Okay.
Which office did you manage?

19

20
21 22

A

One of the Middleburg Heights on the first

floor.
Q

Okay.

Oh, this is the office that had several

23
24
A
Q

floors? Correct.
Okay.
You managed the first floor.

25

How many

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1

after you left, that paid a minimum?
A
Q

2

Wi th Heartland?

3
4

Yes.
I had a conversation with Eric Jarold I believe

A

5
6 7
8
Q

one time, and he told me that they were considering doing the minimum wage now as a

draw.
And you -- did you have any other conversations

9

wi th him about that?
A
Q

10
11

No.
And you have no first-hand knowledge of that
program, because tha t was all after you left?

12 13
14
A
Q

Tha t 's correct.

And so when it says you worked as a loan
officer in excess of 40 hours per week on
average, you were not compensated for all hours

15

16
17
18

worked, all you're saying is you were paid on a
commission basis, correct?
A
Q

19

Tha t 's correct.

20
21 22

As a loan officer, did you have weeks where you
didn't make anything?

A
Q

A couple here and there, I mean -Did you also have weeks where you did well?

23
24

A
Q

Yes.
When you say you worked on average 40 hours per

25

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1

week, so some weeks you may have worked less
than 40 hours, some weeks more than 40?
A
Q

2 3
4

Absolutely not, always more than 40.

And how do you know that?

5 6
7
8

A

I know because I would be there one of the

first ones in the morning and I'd the last to leave at night and I would show up on

Saturdays.
Q

9

So were you one of the hardest working loan
officers,

10 11
12
A
Q

then?
s ince you

I believe so.

Were there other loan officers

13
14

were there so much, were there other loan
officers that did not share your dedication to
the job?
A

15

16
17

I can't speak for them.

There were some that

worked as hard as me, so maybe some that worked

18

even harder.
Q

19

I thought you were one of -One of the hardest. One of the hardest.

20 21 22

A
Q

Were there some that

didn't work as hard as you?
A
Q

23
24

Absolutely.
Okay.
Were there some that came in later than
10:00 a.m.?

25

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1

A
Q

Some.

I couldn't say names.

2 3
4

Were there some that left earlier than 6: 00
p.m. ?

A
Q

When I was a loan officer?

5
6
7 8

Yes.

A
Q

Sure.
And were there loan officers who had second

jobs?
A
Q

9

I don't know that for a fact.

10
11
12

Was there, in fact, some flexibility with
respect to when loan officers came and went,

particularly given that they were paid on a

13
14
A
Q

commission basis?
That was depending on their manager.

15

But that did occur, that there was that

16
17

flexibility?
A

I can't speak for them.

My manager required

18

for me to be- there certain hours and to work

19

every other Saturday.
Q

20 21 22 23 24

Based on your observations.

I'm only as king

you to testify as to what you observed

first-hand.
MS. FISHER:
I'll

object

to the extent that the question lS vague.
Q

25

Based on your observations, did you see loan

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MR. CARR:

I'm now

2 3
4

asking Defendant's Exhibit D be marked; it's a
page from the Heartland employee handbook,
defense document No. 1078.
Q

5 6
7
8

Dan, if you would take a look at what has been
marked as Defendant's Exhibit D, and it's
employment and pay policies.

It's a page from

the Heartland Home Finance employee handbook.

9

Do you recall ever seeing this page?
A
Q

10
11 12

I don't recall this page, no.

Does it look familiar to you a tall?

A
Q

No.

It was five years ago.

13
14

Fair enough.

Turning now to the issue of your leaving

15

Heartland.
A

Why did you leave Heartland?

16
17

i left Heartland mainly because of Don Flynn
and meeting that we had.

18

Q

Tell me about that, if you would.
There was a meeting wi th a bunch of the branch

19

A

20
21

managers on the first floor conference room,

and he was going over new policies on how the
company was going to be taking a new direction,

22 23
24

opening up a conforming side of banking; and
after everything was said, he went around the
table and asked everybody's opinions.
When it

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came time for me to give him my opinion, I

2

believe I spoke what ls the truth, that
everybody at that table wanted to say but

3
4

didn't, and at that time Don verbally attacked

5 6 7
8 9
Q

me.
Well, when you say verbally attacked you, what
did he say, as best you can recall?
A

I'm not going to use that kind of language

here.
Q

10
11 12

Can you
profani ty?

are you suggesting that he used

A
Q

Absolutely.
Did you use profani ty?

13
14

A

No, I did not.

I sat there and listened to him
I took everything he

15

take it -- I took it.

16
17 18
Q

said. When it was done, I asked him if that was directed towards me, and he said yes.
Wha twas it -- what was your obj ection wi th the

19

new direction? What did you see as the problem
wi th the new direction the company was taking?
A

20
21 22

Cutting out certain lenders that we dealt with
every day.

23
24

Q

And why was it -- how was it explained to you
tha t the company fel t the need to do that?

25
(

A

To put it in his words, he said you don't work

\

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a t Ford and drive a Chevy; you don't work at
Heartland and use Innerfirst, which ls a bank

2

3
4

we used and did -- I can't even tell you how
many millions of dollars on a monthly basis.
Q

5 6 7
8 9

Was that brokering loans, then, through there?

A
Q

Yes.
And why did you want to continue to do the

brokering?
A

Because that's the bank that we used the most,
that's how we hi t our goals every month.

10 11 12 13
14
Q

I

knew the system inside and out with Innerfirst,

with Moi, doing on-line loans, and basically it

was being taken away from us.
And how did you see that negatively impacting

15

you?
A

16
17
18

Higher interest rates for the customers, longer
turnaround times to get loans done, which means

I wouldn't hit our $150,000 monthly goal, which
means that I wouldn't get paid bonuses.

19 20 21
22

The

loan officers wouldn't get paid as much because it would take longer to get paid, it took
longer to get loans processed.
Wi th that in

23
24
i

mind, everybody would have lost money.
Q

When you were a loan officer, did you do qui te

25

a bi t of brokering of loans through Innerfirst
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and others?
MS. FISHER:
Obj ection,

37

2

3
4

vague.
A
Q

Yes, I did.

5 6 7
8

And when you were a loan officer, did you try
and bring your customers more than one option
for their refinancing?

A
Q

Yes.
And why did you do that?

9

10
11 12

A

To give them the option of what loan program
they wanted.

Q

What, if any, advice or counsel did you give
them about the options that you presented?

13
14
A

Basically it was whether it was an arm or fixed
rate, cash-out as opposed to just a rate and

15

16
17
Q

term finance.
And what, if any, explaining of these did you
do to your customers?
A
Q

18

19

I walked them through the entire process.

20
21

And why did you do that?
To show them what kind of benefi ts that we had
for them.

A

22 23
24
Q

Do you feel you were counseling them on making

decisions?
MS. FI SHER:
Obj ection,

25

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fairly successful loan officer at Heartland,

2 3
4

A
Q

correct? Correct.
What percentage of those were the result of
leads that were provided to you by Heartland?

5
6 7
8 9

A
Q

I would say approximately 70 percent.

What was the value to you of giving the customers advice or explanation as to the loan
options that you were presenting to them?

10
11

A
Q

What was my value on that?
Wha t did you see -- what was the val ue to you

12

of doing that?
A

13
14

Giving them the absolute best scenarios and
letting them choose.

I would coach them along

15 16
17

and tell them what I thought was best for them,

since I was in the industry, and let them
making their own decisions.
Q

18

And did you feel you were good at that part of
the job?

19

20
21 22

A
Q

Absolutely.
Did you feel that that was an important part of
the job, to be able to do those kinds of
explana tions?

23
24
A

Yes.

25

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(Defendant's Exhibi t No. E was marked.)

2 3
4
Q

Okay.
E.

I'm going to hand you what's been marked

as Defendant's Exhibi t E, I believe we're up to

5 6
7 8

MR. CARR:

This is his

employment agreement as a manger. Defendant's document 9757, Michele.
Q

It's

9

If you would take a moment and look at this and
confirm for me that that's your signature on

10 11
12
A
Q

it.
Yes, it is.

13
14

Okay.

And so this is the contract that you

signed when you became a branch manager?
A
Q

15

Correct.
I f you would turn to the second page, paragraph

16
17

4, it says, "Employees Duties." And it first
says, as an impressive manager as one of the officers of the company, his duties will

18

19

20 21 22 23
24

include and it has a list, and one of the items
it has listed is the maintenance of all books,

records, payroll records and loan files of the

office.
Did you understand that and find that to

25

be one of your duties as a branch manager?

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It's 4 -C.
A

2 3
4

The ma j 0 r i t Y 0 f t hat .

I don't agree wi th the

books, we never saw any books.
Q

Okay.

Bu t other than that, you would agree

5
6 7
8

with that, that that was part of your job?
A
Q

Yes.
And do you think your role as a branch manager
was different from the role of other branch
managers, as far as you knew?

9

10
11 12

A
Q

No.

All right.

And then going to page 4, Section

D, it says, within the 12-month period
immediately following the termination of this
agreement, regardless of the reasons therefore,

13
14

15

the employee shall not solicit, induce, aid or
suggest to any of the other employees or
independent contractors of, consul tants to or

16
17
18

other person's having a substantial contractual
relationship wi th the company to leave such

19

20

employ, cease counseling or terminate such
contractual relationship wi th the company.

21
22

Did an issue arise after you left wi th
respect to this language?
MS. FISHER:

23
24

Objection as

25

to relevance.

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as to the issue of brokering something as opposed to taking it to Heartland directly?
A
Q

2

3
4

Not specifically that I can think of.
An d i tis t rue, i s n 't it, t hat the vas t

5 6
7
8

majority of your loans that you closed while

A
Q

you were with Heart land were brokered loans? Correct.
Did you ever meet wi th customers outside the

9

office?
A
Q

10
11

Yes.
And did you meet with customers in the office,
in person?

12 13
14
A
Q

Yes, I did.
About what percentage of the time did you do

15

ei ther, a meeting in person outside the office
or inside the office wi th a customer?
A

16
17 18

Maybe only 25 percent of the time.
MS. FISHER:

I'd just like

19

to obj ect to the last question as being vague

20
21
22

as to time frame as to when he was a loan
officer or a manager.

Just so I can get an

obj ection on tha t.
MR. CARR: answered it.

23
24

He's already
I can still

25

MS. FISHER:

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booked a lot of fees, were they free to leave?
A
Q

2

Yes.
And tha t was true both when you were a loan

3
4

officer and when you were a branch manager?
A

5 6
7 8

As a loan officer, I can't speak for how my
manager ran things.

As a manager, as long as

they reached their $10,000 a month, you know,

there was flexibili ty.
Q

9

And you have no knowledge of how Heartland was
run after you left in March of 2002, correct?

10
11
A

Correct.
MR. CARR:

12 13
14

Okay.

I have

nothing further.
MS. FISHER:

I have a few

15 fol low-up ques tions .
16 BY MS. FISHER:
17
18
Q

Mr. Kopronica, you were asked a little bit
about the loan officers' job duties by Mr.

19

Carr.

Would it be fair to say that the loan

20
21

officer's primary job duty is to sell loans for

Heartland?

22 23
24
Q

I'm going to obj ect to the form of the question as leading.
MR. CARR:

You can answer.
Their main duties were to get applications and

25

A

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Heartland's policy?
A

56

The policy was that there was always Heartland
nonconforming on the BC side for a customer.

3
4

They did want, you know, the BC loans, the

5
6 7
8

nonconforming loans to go to Heartland

nonconforming.

Conforming wise, we were free

to use Innerfirst, Country Wide, a number of

lenders.

Don's meeting was that we were making

9

a swi tch now, we were opening Heartland
conforming, they were going to be comparable to
Innerfirst, but the rates were higher.
Q

10
11 12

So then at that point was the change going to

13
14

be that all loans were supposed to be sent to

15

Heartland banking whether conforming or nonconforming?
MR. CARR:
Obj ect to the

16
17 18
A

form of the question, leading.

Yes.

If it was a conforming loan, it would go

19

to Heartland conforming.

Those are your good

20
21 22

customers, the higher credi t scores. And they
still expected the nonconforming loans to go
through Heartland nonconforming.
Q

23
24

Okay.

Mr. Carr showed you your employment

agreement and showed you a section that said
that -- I'm sorry, I don't remember which

25

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