Free Brief in Support of Motion - District Court of Colorado - Colorado

Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

Document 339-27

Filed 01/31/2006

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Jennifer Legree 1/20/2006 Camile Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

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1

IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO

2 3

Civil Action No. 03-MK-2485
4

Camille Melonakis-Kurz,
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7

indi vidually and on behalf of other)
similarly situated employees,
)
) ) ) ) )

)

Plaintiff,
vs.
Heartland Home Finance, Inc.,

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) )

Defendant.
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11 12 13

)
)

VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF JENNIFER LEGREE
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FOR TRIAL
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17 18

January 20, 2006 3:01 p.m. Phoenix, Arizona

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20

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Prepared by:
Cecelia Brookman, RPR Arizona Certified Reporter No. 50154

Prepared for:

25
.

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Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

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1 working loan officers?
2

A.
Q.

Yes.
Did you see loan officers working -- so that

3

4 presumes that you saw loan officers work less hours than

5 you were working, the times that you were there and they

6 were not?
7
8

A.
Q.

Sure.
Can you identify any loan officer who was

9 harder working than you, that seemed to be there more

10 hours even than you?
11
12 13
14

A.
Q.

No.
You were number one?

A.
Q.

I wasn't number one, but I was there a lot.

Well, you say you weren't number one...
I tried to be, but you know, I was new so I

15

A.

16

made a lot of errors.

I wish I didn't. I lost a lot of

1 7 money.
18
Q.

When you say you made a lot of errors, what do

19 you mean by that?
20
A.

Just basic errors at the beginning. When you

21 s tart doing loans, you learn the hard way. Jus t like

22 life.
23
Q.

Tell me about that a little bit, if you would.

24 What sort of errors did you make?
25
A.
I guess I can't really give you an exact

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Jennifer Legree 1/20/2006

Filed 01/31/2006

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Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

1

example.

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It wouldn't be called an error, per se, rather

2 a lack of knowledge, I should put it, more than errors.

3 I would call them errors now because I know now what I
4 did not know then, so it would be lack of knowledge.
5

Q.

I think lack of knowledge is a fair

6 characterization. Can you give me one example of these

7 lack of knowledge situations?
8

A.

Product knowledge. You know, and when I define

9 product knowledge, I mean standard underwriting

10 guidelines that I didn't know, things of that nature.
11
Q.

How long did it take you to get to know those

12 so you weren't making those lack of knowledge errors?
13
A.

Oh, well, you still fight that battle every

14 single day because those things are kind of reestablished

15 every day.
16
17 18
Q.

So you still work in the industry?

A.
Q.

Yes.
Can you give me an example of one of these --

19 so you never learned it completely during the two years
20 you were at Heartland. Is that what you're saying?
21
22
A.
Q.

I learned a lot at Heartland, absolutely.

And you were fairly successful?

23

A.

Yes. I would say that I know certain places to

24 research at this point in time. I know when I make a
25 statement such as, I wish I would have known then what I

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Jennifer Legree 1/20/2006

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Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

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1 know now, I mean I would go and make sure I did that at

2 this point in time.
3
4

Q.

Can you just give me one example of that?
Like a six-month seasoning situation, you know,

A.

5 like on reserves, you know. Something like that where
6 that would come up down the line, after you get an
7 underwri ting stipulation sheet back, and then you failed

8 to ask your client if they had that money in the bank,
9 and then they didn't, so the deal blows up in your face.

10 Something like that.
11
Q.

And so the consequence would be that the loan

12 wouldn't close and maybe it could have if you'd followed

13 those steps?
14

A.

It wouldn't close that way, but you could try

15 to resell it. But, you know, you've got to start all

16 over again.
17
Q.

Did you find as your employment advanced at

18 Heartland that you got better at that and that you didn't
19 make those lack of knowledge -- have those lack of 20 knowledge si tua tions as frequently?
21
22
A.
Q.

Yes.
Who helped you, if anyone, along the path of

23 learning these various things?
24
A.
I would say that there were a couple people in

25 the office that I would go to more than, you know,

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Jennifer Legree 1/20/2006 Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

1 somebody else. We were supposed to go to our boss, but I
2 used to go to, like Julie Lewis was an individual that I

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3 would reference a lot. She was pretty knowledgeable in

4 the industry.
5
6

Q.

Is she a loan officer?

A.

She was a loan officer at the time. And, you

7 know, just like any other job, I think, you know,
8 communica ting amongst your peers and talking, discussing

9 scenarios and things like that where -- was something

10 that we did.
11
Q.

Would you say that strategy was part of your

12 job as a loan officer, trying to figure out what would be

13 the best way to package a particular proposal to a

14 client?
15
A.
Q.

Yes.
Did you go wi th multiple options sometimes to

16

17 the client, the potential customer?
18

A.

Sure. Based on the products that we offered,

19 you know, I would give them, you know, what they could

20 qualify for. I would give them options, yes.
21
Q.

And you would do that based upon what they told

22 you; correct? And you'd take input from them because

23 you're trying to satisfy their needs?
24 25
A.
Q.

Sure.
And would you say that there is -- you were

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1 counseling them at times as to, well, here are the
2 advantages of this option, here are the disadvantages of
3 this option, so that you're sort of adding value by what

4 you present to them?
5
6

MS. FI SHER: Obj ection; vague.

THE WITNESS: I would say that what -- as

7 opposed to counseling, because I'm not really a counselor

8 of somebody' s life choices. My job was to present the

9 programs and the products properly so that they

10 understood what they were potentially going to buy.
11
Q.

BY MR. CARR: You were reacting to what they

12 told you were their goals; correct?
13

A.

They gave me their goals, and then I would

14 present to them, based on the guidelines that we

15 understood with our products, which products fit that

16 mold, correct.
17
Q.

And there would be mul tiple options, you

18 testified to?
19
A.

Sometimes, yes; sometimes not. And again, that

20 could go back to the example of the six-month reserves.
21 If somebody doesn't have money in the bank and that
22 particular product requires that, then we know right up

23 front that they don't have six months in the past of
24 money sitting there, so they're not just going to come up

25 with it. And if they did, they would tell us about it.

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Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

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Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

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1

Q.

Now, you were fairly successful at Heartland as

2 a loan officer; correct?

3 A. Correct.

4 Q. And isn't it true that you did a lot of 5 brokering strike that.
6 I sn 't it true you broke

red loans at
Outside of Heartland's banking, yes.
And you did that consistently throughout your

7 Heartland?
8

A.
Q.

9

10 employmen t?
11 12

MS. FISHER: Obj ection; vague.
THE WITNESS: At the beginning we brokered a

13 lot, like we did out of house brokering a lot more, until

14 banking came into play. And then when banking came into

15 play, I brokered much less.
16
Q.

BY MR. CARR: But you still brokered. You

17 brokered right up to the end of your employment; right?
18

A.
Q.

If we were allowed to, yes.

19

Yes. But you did do that all the way through;

20 even at the end, at 2003 you were still brokering loans?
21
22
Q.
MS. FI SHER: Obj ection; as ked and answered.

BY MR. CARR: Go ahead.
Again, as long as we didn't -- weren't told

23

A.

24 that we weren't allowed to, like for example, InterFirst,
25 we weren't allowed to send deals to any more, so I was
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Case 1:03-cv-02485-MSK-PAC

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Jennifer Legree 1/20/2006 Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

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1 not allowed to broker to any bank I wanted to broker to.

2 But if in the event we couldn't closed through Heartland 3 or their banking, then we were allowed to go outside and

4 broker, yes.
5

Q.

So like even in June of 2003 you brokered wi th

6 First Franklin, I think it is, Decision, Town Mortgage,

7 Union, those all sound familiar to you?

8 A. Yes.
9

Q.

Tell me what caused you to broker a loan. Even

10 after -- you said there was a point in time where you

11 were not supposed to, or the loan was first go to

12 Heartland and Heartland was supposed to bank it if they
13 could, or if they wanted to.
14

A.
Q.

Sure.
So tell me about the process where these loans

15

16 ended up being brokered.
17

A.

Sometimes if you submitted to Heartland and,

18 you know, the client wouldn't buy the deal at all. Like
19 say, for example, you sent it to the sub prime department

20 at Heartland, and they couldn't do the deal or they came

21 back with a rate that was an 11 percent and you were 22 getting 7 percent at First Franklin, for example, your

23 manager had to sign off on it. But that was just an
24 unrealistic deal to sell to the client at 11 percent

25 when, you know, First Franklin was offering.
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Jennifer Legree 1/20/2006 Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

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1 And there was a couple of them that they
2 wanted us to -- they didn't want us to go allover the
3 place with brokering, you know. There was a few brokers
4 that they were comfortable wi th for us to use, approved

5 brokers we'll call it.
6

Q.

And I reviewed your HUD 1 forms, and I'll

7 represent to you that it looks like you did 15 loans wi th

8 InterFirst during your time at Heartland. Does that
9 sound about right? I'm not holding you to exact numbers.
10
A.

I don't know. It seems like I did more wi th

11 them, but okay.
12
Q.

19 wi th Heartland. Okay? And 13 wi th First
Okay.
Does that sound about right?
I don't know, I'd have to look at my records,

13 Franklin.
14

A.
Q.

15

16

A.

17 but okay.
18
Q.

And then you also brokered loans with Chase,

19 SMC, Creeve, Americ, First Union, Town. All that sound

20 right?
21 22
A.
Q.

Yeah.
To do this you had to be thinking about what

23 all the options were for your customers; right? Because

24 you're trying to find a solution that is better for them.
25 Maybe it would be better for Heartland to get that high
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Jennifer Legree 1/20/2006 Camille Melonakis-Kurz, et al. v. Heartland Home Finance, Inc.

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1 interest rate, but you were doing something that
2 benefi ted the customer by getting that lower interest

3 rate in the example you just offered; correct?
4

MS. FISHER: Obj ection; vague.
THE WITNESS: Repeat again what you're

5

6 trying to...
7

Q.

BY MR. CARR: Sure. Maybe it's self-evident,

8 but if Franklin is offering a loan at 7 percent, and
9 Heartland is offering at 11 or 13 percent, your customer
10 is better off by taking the 7 percent, even though it's

11 brokered; right?
12
A.

Realistically, I'm a salesperson, I'm there to

13 make money, so I can't really get two points on the back
14 at 11 percent and sell that deal when I can get two

15 points from First Franklin. It's about my sales, it's
16 about what I'm going to make at the end of the day. And
17 if I have to take it to another company because
18 undeniably I'm going to make more money and it's a better

19 deal and product, that's what I'm going to do.
20
Q.

Which is going to be better for the customer,

21 the 7 percent or the 13 percent?
22
A.

Well, they could be the same deal. It could be

23 the same loan, I mean. So inevitably in the customer's
24 mind it may be better because the payment's going to be

25 lower, yes, I mean that makes sense.

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