Free Response to Motion - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

, ,

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Alan Brownstein

Document 792-13
McLean, VA

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 1 of 19
April 11 ,

2002

Page 518

That I s what this
best of my

says.

And to the

recollection, I think that I

accura te .
And so you would agree that there were

at least -- strike

that.

So you would agree that there were
issues that had been identified where there were

omissions, inconsistencies, ambiguities or
contradictions in the standard contract?
MR. BANES:
legal conclus

Obj ection

Calls for

ion.

THE WITNESS:
\.1

There were 34 issues
for

that we recognized, we being the department and

utilities, that needed to be clarified

whatever the reason.
BY MR. HIRSCH:

And so at minimum, that would have
reflected that the standard contract was
ambiguous on those issues
MR. BANES:

isn I ,t

that correct?
Calls for a

Obj ection

legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:

No.

It could have

been,

it could have had omissions.

It could have had

inconsistencies.
I mean there are a host of reasons

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street, N. W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC 20005

01075

""""'-

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Ala.,. Brownstein

Document 792-13
, McLean, VA

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 2 of 19
April 11 ,

2002,

Page 519

why.
, MR. HIRSCH:

All right. There were 34
there was ei ther

issues where

an omission , an inconsistency,

an ambiguity or a contradiction, is that

correct?
MR. BANES:
THE WITNESS:

Same obj ection
To the best of my

recollection.
MR. HIRSCH:

Mr. Brownstein -- strike

that. Let'

s mark another
,

exhibit. (Brownstein Exhibit No.
A

47

was marked for

identification. )
BY MR. HIRSCH:

Mr. Brownstein, I have h~nded you what has been marked as Brownstein Deposition Exhibit
47, which is a copy of the March 1995 DOE

Acceptance Priori ty Ranking Annual Capaci
Report.
It doesn t appear to have Bates

labels.
Do you recognlze that this document

a copy 0 f the DOE 1995 APR/ACR~
MR. BANES:

Obj ection -- lack of

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street, N. W. Suite 400 l-ROIUlr:w" l Washington, DC 20005 '

01076

/'~

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 3 of 19

CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC
I, Catheri ne S. Boyd, the Notary

occurred, through pages , do hereby certi fy that the wi tness was duly sworn, that the test i mony of
Publ ic before whom the proceeding

said wi tness
reduced to

was taken by me and thereafter
transcr

thi s typewr i tten

i pt under

my

supervision, that said transcript is a true

record of the tes t i mony gi ven by sa i d wi tness ,
that I am nei ther counsel for, related to, nor
employed by any of the parties to this

proceeding, and further, that I am not a

re lat i ve 0 r an employee of any attorney or

counse 1 employed by

the pa

rt i es thereto, or

f i nanc i ally or otherwi se i nteres ted in the
outcome of the proceeding, or any action

i nvo 1 ved therewi th.
Wi tness

my signa tu re and seal:

I' ;J

s;J

CATHERINE S. BOYD

Notary Publ ic
My commission expires:

in and for

The Commonwealth of Vi rgi n i

February 28, 2006

01077

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Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 792-13
Billy Cole

::~

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 4 of 19
March 13 , 2002

i~~"

Mclean. VA

245

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
-JC

YANKEE ATOMIC ELECTRIC COMPANY

(98- 126C) (Merow ,

S.

CONNECTICUT YANKEE ATOMIC POWER COMPANY
(98-154C) (Merow , S.

FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY

(98- 483C)

(Wilson, J.

F':nr ti ~!J wu.....~.P ~vu \l.
nGrr~~ rC))\~

NORTHERN STATES POWER COMPANY

(98 -484C) (Wiese, J. )
DUKE POWER , A Division of
DUKE ENERGY CORP.

(98- 485C)

(Sypolt,

INDIANA MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY

(98 - 486C) (Hodges, J.
SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT

(98- 488C)

(Yock, S.

SOUTHERN NUCLEAR OPERATING COMPANY

et al.
(98- 488C) (Yock , (98- 621C) (99- 447C)
S.

COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY
(Hewitt, J.

BOSTON EDISON COMPANY
(Allegra, J.

GPU NUCLEAR, INCORPORATED

01078
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc, 1111 14th Street , N, W, Suite 400 1- 800- FOR- DEl'O Washington , DC 20005

-.,,

------------------Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Billy Cole

Document 792-13
Mclean, VA

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 5 of 19
March 13

2002

246

(00 - 440C) (Bush, J.
WISCONSIN ELECTRIC POWER COMPANY

(00- 697C)
(00- 703C)

(Merow ,

S .

POWER AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
(Damich, J.

OMAHA PUBLIC POWER DISTRICT

(01- 115C)

(Bush, J.

NEBRASKA PUBLIC POWER DISTRICT
(01-116C) (Sypolt, J.

TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY

(01- 249C)

(Bruggink, J.

Plaintiffs,
Discovery
THE UNITED STATES

: Judge:

Defendant.
McLean, Virginia

: (Judge
- -xSypol t)

Wednesday, March 13, 2002

Continued deposition of BILLY M. COLE
a witness, recalled for examination by counsel

for Plaintiffs in the above-entitled matter

pursuant to notice, the witness being duly sworn

by CATHERINE S. BOYD, a Notary Public in and for
the Commonwealth of Virginia, taken at the

offices of Shaw Pittman , LLP , 1650 Tysons

01079
Alderson Reporting Company, lnG, 1111 14th Street, N. w. Suite 400 1- 800- FOR- DEPO Washington, DC 20005

$~;'., ). :

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Billy Cole

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 6 of 19
March 13 ,

2002

Mclean, VA

439

What would be the benefit of

campaigning?
Permitting is one.
you can move into a facility

Size of the train

move a train in

and pick up three car loads of three casks, load
30 tons instead of one cask of ten

tons, it'

going to cost less, cost you almost the same to
haul one of those cars down the railroad as it

does three of

them.

You' re going to save a lot of money.
Campaigning can save money.

Campaigning can save money for DOE?
Urn - hm .

It can also save money for the

utilities possibly because you only, you

I re only

interrupting your site one time every maybe
three years instead of every year where

somebody s coming in where you' re loading that

stuff ,
year.

so you only have to, you know, loading

crews and stuff once every three years to once a

There'

s benefits to everybody by doing

campaigning.
What would , what would be a reason not
to do campaigning?

The only reason you would not do

01080
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc, 1111 14th Street, N. W, Suite 400 1- 800- FOR-DEPO Washington , DC 20005

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 7 of 19

CERTIFICATE OF NOTARY PUBLIC
I, Catherine S. Boyd, the Notary

Public before whom the proceeding

occurred,

pages

through

, do hereby certify that the

wi tness was duly sworn, that the testimony of
said witness was taken by me and thereafter

reduced to this typewritten transcript under my
supervision, that said transcript is a true

record of the testimony given by said

witness,

that I am neither counsel for, related to, nor
employed by any of the parties to this

proceeding, and further, that I am not a
, I

relative or an employee of any attorney or

counsel employed by the parties thereto, or
financially or otherwise interested in the

outcome of the proceeding, or any action

involved therewith.
Witness my signature and

seal:

CATHERINE S.

Notary Public in and for
The Commonweal th of Virginia

My commission explres:

February 28,

2002

01081

\~ .. ... .... , ~,..,,

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Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 792-13 Filed 04/16/2004

~\)~'\
Page 8 of 19

IN THE U. S. COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

YANKEE ATOMIC ELECTRIC CO"

~INE Y~~E AWMIC P~ER CO., ,
CONNECTICUT YANKEE ATOMIC POWE
CO. ,

Plaintiffs:
vs.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

: No. 98- 126C

98- 474C

98- 154C

Defendant.

Washington, D. C .

Tuesday, August 26,

2003

Deposition of:
DR. JOHN BARTLETT

called for eJCamination by counsel for the

defendant, pursuant to notice and
commencing at 9:30
a. m.

agreement,

at Department of Justice,

1100 L Street N. W., ~efore Virlana Kardash , RPR

CSR, a Notary Public in and for the District of Columbia, when were present on behalf of the
",,-'iC'

respective parties:

ii'

1825 I Street , N,

JABS REPORTING , INc.
muou- :.. '- ,

Washington , D, c. 20006

01082

(202) 296- 6102 (888) 805- 5227

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 9 of 19

You mus t have deal t wi th the standard con trac t

some way; correc

Very limited.
Let'
tha t ,

s start from just the beginning of

then.

What' s your understanding of,

essentially, what is the standard contract?

Well, it I s the

contract between the

department and the utilities that the department

will receive spent fuel for

disposal.

Did you - -

my understanding from what

you' ve already told me is that you had no
involvement in making or drafting the standard
contract; is that right?

I did not know it existed until I got
to DOE.

When is the first time that you
actually even read it?
I don

I t remember

exactly.

But it was while you were Director of
OCRWM?

Uh- huh. '
What involvement did the standard
79 .
1825 I Street , N. Washington , D. e. 20006
JABS REPORTING , INe.

www.jabsreporting. com

(202) 296- 6102 (888) 805- 5227

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Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 10 of 19

contract have in your job while you were at OCRWM?

Very limited because of the stage of
the program at the

time.

Can you explain what limited
involvement it did have?

Simply an awareness that it

existed.

And we had the responsibility to do our very best

to begin receipt in January of 1998.

And the

primary thing having to do with that was the
siting of the MRS because YQU could go nowhere
. 11

without that under the program strategy at the

time.
So the involvement with the standard
contract and its provisions was absolutely

minimal.
I want to break that down just a little

bit.

You said that you had an obligation to do

your very best to start accepting fuel in 1998?

Uh- huh.
Was your understanding at the

time,

while you were Director of OCRWM, that you were
contractually obligated to start in 1998?

1825 I Street, N,W, Washington , D, c. 20006

JABS REPORTING , INe.

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(202) 296- 6102 (888) 805- 5227

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 11 of 19

premiere award for

service.

When did you win that?

Two years after the year after I got

out of DOE, somewhere in that time

frame.

What are the qualifications necessary
to be listed in "Who' s Who in America"?
I really don' t know.
it; that' s all I can

This resume did

say.
Dr. Bartlett, how

Okay.

Fair enough.

do you keep current in your field?

Nowadays?

The web sites are by far the

best source of information.
Are there web sites that you frequent?

Uh- huh.
Wha t are they?

The principal one is

- - it'

s called

"What' s News?"

And of all

things, it I S sponsored

by the State of Nevada.

And it is very

comprehensive in terms of reporting information
about things nuclear , globally.

They capture everything and put it on that
web site.

III
1825 I Street , N. Washington , D, e. 20006
JABS REPORTING , INe.
unXlW iahsreDorting, com

(202) 296- 6102 (888) 805- 5227

01085

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Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 12 of 19

So it'

not just about Yucca Mountain?

Oh, no.

No.

Yucca Mountain was the

instigation, I think , for the web site, but it is

very comprehensive in terms of reporting news

about things nuclear globally.
Did you ever contribute to that web

site?
No.
What other web sites?

The Nuclear Waste Technical Review
Board, which has oversight of the Office of
Civilian Radioactive Waste Management.

The

Nuclear Regulatory Commission program activities.

And closely affiliated with that, the Advisory
Committee on Nuclear Waste , which is part of the
NRC.

Any others?
And of course , OCRWM' s
So you still keep up with what' s going
on at

OCRWM?

Yes.

Are there any other web si tea?

Have we
112

1825 I Street , N, Washington , D, c. 20006

JABS REPORTING , INc.

www iahsreoorting, com

(202) 296- 6102
(888) 805- 5227

01086

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- - - - - - - - - - - - - .Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 792-13

- ", &, ~::%
Filed 04/16/2004

~'\
Page 13 of 19

:J.~

IN THE U. S. COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

YANKEE ATOMIC ELECTRIC

JC CO.,
CO.,

\) \J\)

MAINE YANKEE ATOMIC POWER

CONNECTICUT YANKEE ATOMIC POWER
CO. ,

\J~ "
: No. 98- 126C

Plaintiffs:
vs.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

98 - 4 74C

98- 154C

Defendant.
~~J

Washington ,

D. C

Wednesday, August 27 , 2003

Continued Deposition of:
DR. JOHN BARTLETT

called for eJCamination by counsel for the defendant, pursuant to notice and
commencing at 9:30 a.

agreement,

at Department of

Justice,

1100 L Street N. W.,

before Virlana Kardash, RPR,

CSR, a Notary Public in and for the District of

Columbia, when were present on behalf of the

respective parties:
301

1825 I Street , N, Washington , D.

20006

JABS REPORTING , INC www,jabsreporting. com

(202) 296- 6102 (888) 805- 5227

01087

'/-

......... '-

~,- - - -

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 14 of 19

paper to confirm and design features and comparing
it to regulatory requirements.
I see.

Who did that scribbling or that

testing?
The support contractor, DOE I S

support

contractor.
Do you know who
tha, t

was?

Well, at the time it would have been
the TRW team.

Do you know -And now it is Bechtel- SAIC.

Do you know when tha t
I 90s, over a period of time.

was done?

It would have been done around mid

So after you were director at OCRWM?

Yes, the idea was conceived after I was

director.

It was evaluated and studied

during,

roughly, the mid

' 90s period.

How is it that you' re familiar with

that?
Well, it was made public; everything

about the program is
,Ii

public.

And I'

ve maintained,
309

1825 I Street , N. Washington , D. e. 20006

JABS REPORTING , INe.
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(202) 296- 6102 (888) 805- 5227

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-Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 792-13 Filed 04/16/2004 Page 15 of 19

shall we say, knowledge of the program as a member
of the public through the work I was doing for EPA
where I would attend these meet ings where they

would report on what they were

doing.

So I just maintained cognizance of the

status of the program as an outsider as they reported it at

public. meetings.

Advisory

Committee on Nuclear Waste, NRC, Nuclear Waste
Technical Review Board

those were the usual

venues.
DbE and NRC also have periodic~ what they

call, technical

eJCchanges, which are

noticed and

are available to the public if you want to go to

the trouble.

So there I s lots

of opportunities if

you' re interested in maintaining cognizance of
what the status of the program

is.
storage

Okay.

Is the fact that you can't use

the same container for transportation
and transportation as you use for

dispos~l, is

that another reason why you need that lag

facility?
Uh- huh.
310
1825 I StTeet , N,

JABS REPORTING , INc.
U/UJUJ i"h~rpnortinO"

Washington , D, c. 20006

rom

(202) 296- 6102
(888) 805- 5227

01089

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 16 of 19

for everybody.

No attention to

it.

So did you take any ac~ions, while you
were director, to facilitate exchanges?

No.
Did you consul t wi th anyone in the

industry to dete~ine the

viability of exchanges?

It was discussed, as I

mentioned.

would meet periodically with this American
Committee on RAD Waste Disposal, which was a group

of CEOs of some of the principal

utilities.

And

we would talk about that, among these 18
and the shut- down issue, et cetera.

issues,

And it would be discussed as a concept to be

addressed at some appropriate
interested in it

time.

They were

they saw issues in implementing

it.

And they saw about as many issues as there

were members of the commi

t tee.

But it was definitely expected , on the basis
of what I heard at those meetings

that they would

be looking for some capability to do

that.

Okay.

I have a couple of questions for

you based on what you said.

When you talk about
509

1825 I Street , N. Washington

20006

JABS REPORTING , INC www, jabsreporting. com

(202) 296- 6102 (888) 805- 5227

01090

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Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 792-13
Washington, D.

':'
Page 17 of 19

Filed 04/16/2004

Lake H. BarrettCONrAINS CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION PURSUANT TO THE PROTECTIVE ORDER May 14 2002

Page 1

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

YANKEE ATOMIC ELECTRIC
COMPANY, CONNECT

lv ,-

I cur YANKEE

Li e tifED Il r i

COpy

ATOMIC POWER COMPANY, MAINE
YANKEE ATOMIC POWER COMPANY,
: Case No. 98- 126C,
: 98- 154C,

Plaintiff,
vs.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

98- 474C

: (Senior Judge Merrow)

Defendant.

: Volume I

Washington, D . C .
Tuesday, May 14 , 2002
, 14

Deposi tion of LAKE H. BARRETT, a

witness herein, called for eJCamination by
for the Plaintiffs in the above-entitled

counsel
sworn,

matter,

pursuant to notice, the witness being duly
taken at the offices of Spriggs &

Hollingsworth,

1350 Eye Street, N. W., Washington, D.

commencing at 9:30 a. m., Tuesday, May 14, 2002,

and the proceedings being taken down by Stenotype
by CAPPY HALLOCK, RPR- CRR , and transcribed under

her direction.
CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION
PURSUANT TO THE PROTECTIVE ORDER

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. AM' 1 QOOT;'()ILDH;PO Washington 111114th Street, N. W. ro , DC 20005

01091

, "

' ')

,'

Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM

Document 792-13
Washington

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 18 of 19

Lake H. B31Tett CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION PURSUANT TO THE PROTECTIVE ORDER May 14 , 2002

Page 174

MS~ HERRMANN:

Objection.

Vague.

Speculation.
That that could have been done?
It could have been done.

Okay.
It technically could have been done.

Now, you again -- some of these things
I know we touched on earlier

m just attacking

it from a different angle here.

You mentioned earlier today shipping

campaigns.

Do you recall that?

Yes.
Now

would you agree that there are

advantages to shipping campaigns versus moving
over only a small number of assemblies at a time?

Yes.
Would you agree that one of the
important advantages of shipping campaigns is that

efficiencies in transportation operations tend to

be realized?
MS. HERRMANN

Obj ection.

Vague.

Yes.
Okay

and would you agree that
as cask handl

repe tit i ve operations such decontamination ,
loading

ing ,

receipt and turnaround,

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc.

1111 14th Street , N. W. Suite

Ifi\i\

Qi\i\

L'rm TH)n" Washington , DC 20005

01092

-Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 792-13
Washington , D.
Page 175

Filed 04/16/2004

Page 19 of 19

Lake H. Barrett CONTAINS CONFIDENTIAL INFORMATION PURSUANT TO THE PROTECTIVE ORDER May 14 , 2002

are all more efficiently accomplished per cycle in
a campaign versus individual cask transport?
MS. HERRMANN:

Qbj ection.

Vague

compound.

Yes. Okay.
Now

Good.
today I believe you

. also earlier

testified that you thought it was possible
looked at I think it was Page 8 from one of the

ACRs which had the oldest fuel first queue, if you

will. Do you recall , that?
Yes.
And the question

was, do you think it I s

possible that when DOE commences fuel acceptance
in 2010 or some other time tpat that queue, with

minor variations that we put to one side for
purposes of the earlier que~tion and I will put
aside here, did you think it was possible that

that queue would be the actual sequence of pickup

of spent fuel.
Yes.

Do you recall that?

And you said you thought that was

possible?
It was possible.

Unlikely.

Unlikely.

Tha t would be my next

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc.

1111 14th Street , N. W. Suit&'

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r-rm ') Washington , DC 20005

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