Free Motion in Limine - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 1 of 10
February 6, 2004

Washington, DC

Page l

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IN THE

UNITED

STATES No.

COURT 98-720

OF FEDERAL C

CLAIMS

(Filed

January

30, 2004)

PRECISION

PINE

& TIMBER,

INC.,

Plaintiff,
V.

THE

UNITED

STATES, Defendant.

Washington, Friday, Deposition witness counsel matter, duly herein, for of RONALD for

D.C. 6, 2004 a

February

D. LEWIS, by

called

examination

Defendant

in the

above-entitled the witness being Public at K

pursuant

to notice,

sworn for

by CATHERINE the District

S. BOYD,

a Notary taken

in and the

of Columbia, & Stevens, D.C.

offices

of Saltman

P.C.,

1801

Street, a.m.,

N.W., Friday,

Washington, February

20006, and the

at 9:07

6, 2004, down

proceedings CATHERINE direction.

being S. BOYD

taken and

by Stenotype under

by her

transcribed

1111 14th Street,

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3
Washington, DC
Page I0

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 2 of 10
February 6, 2004

Page 12

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Forest Service in Oregonon Rogue Jver National P, Forest as a janior forester is whatthey called themthen. Q. Whenwas that? A. T~at was in summer1962. Q. Andhowlong were you thera as a junior forester? A. I workedsix months and was drafted, went into the Army two years. for Q. Whatdid you do as a junior forester? A. It was moreor less of a training position. Youjumped around. I workedin timber management, preparation of timber sales, mforastation, recreation, wilderness management, trail building, fire fighting, of course. It was a training position, so you got a shot at all of the different things goingon in the Forest Service. Q. Howlong were you in each of those different areas that you weretalking about? Did you rotate through them during your six months? A. Oh, a month to six weeks in each
Pagel 1

Q. Andwhen was this you rejoined the 2 Forest Service? 3 A. It was in Janua~ of 1965. 4 Q. Wasthem anything else you did at 5 that time for the Forest Service? 6 A. Other than tiber sales, no. As soon 7 as i got, rejoined the Forest Service there, we 8 had this, it was ca[led a December flood or 9 whatever it was. 10 It was the DecemberChristmas flood of tl 1964, which - and storm which blew down a ton 12 of trees. 13 The first three or four monthsafter I 14 got back from the Army, I worked at salvage 15 sales salvaging the downedtimber from the 16 storm. 17 Q. Howlong were you a small sales 18 forester out in Oregon? 19 A. Abouta year at Butte Fa[ls, and then 20 I transferred to their Prospect RangerDistrict 21 in the same forest, Rogue River National Forest, 22 and becamethe large sale forester finding and 23 preparing timber sales. 24 Q. What did you do in planning and 25 preparing the timber sales?
Page I3

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probably. Q. Yousaid you went into the Army after that? A. Yes. Q. Howlong were you in the Aymy? A. Twoyears; I was in ArmyCorps of Engineers, taught cadasteral surveying. It's land surveying. It's just land surveying, and wh~leI went to school at Fort Belvoir, and then they kept meon as an instructor for nine" months, and then I was shipped to Korea for thirteen months. Then mytime was up, and I came home. Q. What did you do when you came home? A. I went back to work for the Forest Service downthe RogueRiver National Forest at the Butte Falls RangerDistrict in Butte Falls, Oregon. Q. In Oregon you say? A. Um-hm. Q. Whatwas your position then? A. I started out there as a, as a small sales forester they called me. I prepared small timber sales and administered themafter they were sold.

A. Supervised the preparation crew that 2 went out and laid out timber sate areas, and 3 wrote the proposed plan, how muchtimber volume 4 would be in the sale. 5 Wewould cruise the timber and 6 determine volume, and then appraise it, 7 advertise it for sale. 8 Q. Wasthere anything else you did as a 9 large scale forester? 10 A. Yeah. I also supervised the log 11 scaling crew and the timber sate administrators, 12 people whoadministered the contracts. 13 Q. Wasthere anything else that you did 14 while you were there as a large scale forester? 15 A. Served as acting ranger occasionally 16 whenthe ranger was gone, that kind of thing. 17 Q. How lang were you at was it the 18 Prospect Ranger Station? 19 A. Yes. 20 Q. How long were you there as the large 21 scale forester? 22 A. About two years. 23 Q. So you left there in at what time? 24 A. Nineteen sixty-eight I think it was. 25 Q. And what did you do then? 4 (Pages 10 to 13)

I 111 I4th Street,

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR_-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 3 of 10
February 6, 2004

Washington, DC
Page 14 Page 1(

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ~ 19 ] 20 21 22 23 24 25

A. I transferred to the Blue River Ranger station at WilametteNational Forest, W-i-l-a-m-e-t-t-e, Blue River RangerStation District. Q. What was your position there? A. I was the reforestation forester and civil culturalist. Q. Whatis a civil culturist? A. He managesthe, it's called the young stand tending basically. Wethirmed, made thinning, government contracts for thinning, and the reforestation was planting, planned thinning of anything from commemial pole-size timber to real small trees, Christmastrees, that kind of thing, and wrote EnvironmentalImpact Statements for all timber sales. Q. Wasthere anything else that you did while you were at the Blue Ridge RangerStation? A. Yeah. I was there about five years, and later on, I becamethe timber management assistant it was called whereI supervisedall preparation, administration and scaling of timber. Q. Whendid you get that position?
Page 15

assistant on the Fort Rock RangerDistrict, and the Fort Rock the largest district underthe was DesohutesForest. That was about 800,000 acres or something that size. of Q. Whatdid you do as the timber management assistant on the Daschutes National Forest? A. Basically the same thing I was doing on the WilametteNational Forest -- supervising timber sale layout crews, preparation, administration, appraisals, auctions, and then log scaling. Q. Were there any differences between what you had been doing at the Blue Ridge Ranger Station and what youdid after you transferred? A. Not really; we were just dealing with different speciesof trees. Overthere, it was more PonderosaPine on that side of the mountain. 120 Onthe west side, it was moreDouglas 21 Fir and Hemlock. 22 Q. Howlong were you there at Fort Rock 23 as the timber.managementassistant? 24 A. Let's see. No.I left there in '79. 25 Q. In 1979, where did you - what was
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A. It would have been about 1970. Q. Couldyou describe a little bit further your responsibilities as the timber management assistant? A. Well, plarmed, prepared, appraised timber sales, and supervisedthe, the contract administrators and the, that administeredthe timber sale contracts, conductedauctions and log scaling, and log scaling supervisor. Wehad several log scalers that measuredthe logs as they cameout of the woods. Q. Were you supervising people doing these tasks, or were you actually doing them yourself?. A. No. I was supervising. Q. Howmanypeople were you supervising? A. Counting everybody, it would have been about 25. That's summer help and all that. Q. Whatdid you do next after you left the Blue Ridge Ranger Station? A. I transferred over to the east side of the mountains to Bend, Oregon, and the Deschutas National Forest, D-e-s-c-h-u-t-e-s, National Forest on the, on the Fort RockRangerDistrict. Again, I was a timber management

your next job? 2 A. I took a long-termdetail to the 3 office, USDA Office of Inspector General for 4 three years, out of their San Francisco regional 5 office. 6 Q. Whatdid you do in the Office of 7 Inspector General? 8 A. I wascalled an auditor specialist, 9 and we traveled as an audit team or inspector, 10 inspection team that went around to the various 11 national foregts in the nation doing program 12 audits, whistle-blower-type audits, 13 investigations, a few other special-type audits, 14 and we drafted, we reviewed their programs and 15 what they were doing, and, and I specialized 16 primarily in timber sale areas because that was 17 myarea of expertise on the team. t8 Makesure they were obeying the laws 19 and spending their moneythe way it was supposed 20 to be spent. 21 Q. Wherewas it that you did the audits? 22 Was it nationwide? 23 A. Yes, pretty much. The regional office 24 in San Francisco primarily concentrated on the 25 West Coast - California, Oregon, Washington, 5 (Pages 14 to 17)

1111 14th Street,

Aldersun Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3
Washington, DC Page 18

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 4 of 10
February 6, 2004

Page20 Forest in Vancouver, Washington. 2 Q. What was your position now when you 3 went back to the Forest Service? 4 A. I workedin the forest supervisors 5 office as the contracting officer for timber 6 sales. 7 Q. Did you say you went back to this 8 position in 1981? 9 A. Yes. It was fight after MountSt. 10 Helen's had erupted, and it was really a new 11 position they created to help oversee the 12 salvaging of timber from the, that the volcano 13 destroyed. 14 Q. What did you do in that position? 15 A. Supervised the preparation of the 16 larger sales, the ones that camein under the 17 forest supervisor's authority, winch would have 18 been over a million board foot of timber in each 19 sale all the wayup to 20 million or so size. 20 I supervised the log export control 21 provisions because Vancouver is on a port, and 22 quite a bit of Gifford-Pinchot National Forest 23 is near the Pacific Coast. 24 There were several ports that we had 25 to inspect and keep an eye on to make sure there Page 21 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 i 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 was no national forest logs being exported. Q. Whydid you have to make sure of that? A. Because there's a law against exporting national forest logs without primary processing in the United States. Q. What is primary processing? A. It has to be sawedinto not necessarily boards, but into thick timbers, and then they could be exported and finished processing overseas, but they had to be primarily processed in the United States. Q. Whatelse did you do as the contracting officer on the Gifford-Pinchot National Forest? A. Headed up the timber sale administration, training of the administrators on the districts, and there wasfive ranger districts, so we conductedtraining operations on the districts, visited all the.districts, and went out and looked at their timber sale programsin the field, the logging operations going on. Q. And how were, how long were you there as the contracting officer? A. About two and a half years, three 6 (Pages 18 to 21)

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Alaska, Arizona, NewMexico, Montana, Idaho. Occasionally we wouldtravel back east to the southeastern forest in Georgiaand Alabama. Let's see. Where else did I go -Wisconsin, Minnesota occasionally, but most of our auditi.rtg, our special work,was in the West. Q. What sorts of things were you auditing? A. Contract administration, thnber sale contract administration, timber sale admJnish'ators to makesure that they were administering the contracts the waythe contract was written, they weren't playing favors with, you know,interested people, that kind of thing, that the timber that they had designated to be harvested was what was being harvested, they weren't getting any extra timber or they weren't leaving timber urtharvested that was planned to be harvested, that ldnd of stuff. Otherwise just makingsure they were living up to the terms of, the Forest Service was livhag up to the terms of the contract, and that the Forest Service wasrequiring the tixnber purchasersto live up to the terms of the Page 19

contracts, road building requirements,fleet 2 management, whether they were using Forest 3 Service fleet efficiently and properly, and what 4 else? 5 Recreation little, ski resort a 6 permits, special use permits, grazing and that 7 kind of tbSng; we looked into a general overall 8 program review of things. 9 Q. Wasthere anything alse that you were 10 doing while you were the auditor specialist in 11 San Francisco? 12 A. Writing a lot of reports; we were 13 drafting - well, usually we would be out 14 traveling for two weeks, home for a week 15 drafting the report, out again for two weeks. 16 Involved a tremendous amount bf 17 traveling. 18 Q. Did you do audits in Arizona while you 19 were there? A. Yes, a couple of them, um-hm. 20 21 Q. Let'ssee. Whendid you leave your 22 position in San Francisco? 23 A. In 1981, I went back to - myyear, 24 three years was up, and I went back to the 25 Forest Service on the Gifford-Pinchot National

1111 t4th Street,

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Wasinngton, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 5 of 10
February 6, 2004

Washington, DC
Page 22 Page 24

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years I guess, three years. Q. So you left in t9847 A. It must have been '85. Q. What was, what was your next position that you took? A. I took a similar position in the regional, in the Forest Service regional office at Portland, and then I was, assist the staff for fmabersales in Portland, Oregon,in the Pacific NorthwestRegional Office. Q. Whenyou say it was a similar position, howwas it similar to the workyou did as contracting officer? A. Well, instead of supervising five ranger districts, then wehad thirteen national forests we were overseeing in their preparation of timber sales, adminislxationof timber sales, log measurements,log export, but I was primarily the timber sale, administering the sales after they weresold at that point in the regional office. I didn't haveresponsibility for overseeingthe preparation of the sales, just administration of the contracts. Q. Had you been overseeing the
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It wasjust strictly contract ad~stration. Q. And what responsibilities did you have with respect to contract administration in the regional office in Portland? A. Overseeing thirteen national forests and their programs,again, training for contracting officers and timber sale administrators, setting up training programs, going out and conducting training and reviews and regional reviewsof the forests to see if they're meetingthe standards. Q. What would you have been doing in order to, in order to supervisethe various national forests at that tune? A. Constant communication with them -telephone,Intarnet, and visit, visiting the forests. Q. What period of fmae were you in the regional office at Portland? A. Let's see. From'86 or '87; I came into the national office in '89, so I wasonly there about two years in the regional office. Q. So you left the regional office in 19897
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preparation of the sales whenyou were in the supervisors office back in Washington? A. Yes. In Washington7 Q. Yes. A. No. Q. Whenhad you been supervising the preparation of the sales? A. WhenI was under Gifford-Pinchot National Forest; in other words, they would, the ranger district wouldprepare the sate. They wouldsend the packet into our office, and we wouldreview it for accuracy as far as the appraisals, the plans, the Impact Statements. Q. And what was your position again when you were in the Gifford-Pinchot National Forest? A. Contracting officer for timber sales, so they wouldsend the packet into us. Wewouldapprove it for advertising after review. Q. And then, well, whenyou went to the regional office in Portland, howdid you, did your responsibilities differ7 A. I wasn't involved with overseeing the preparation anymore.

t 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 It 1 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A. Yes. Q. And what did you do then? A. I transferred to the Washington office here in the National Headquarters in Washington, D.C. Q. What was your position when you made that transfer? A. I was a staff specialist for timber sale contracting. Q. What did you do as the staff specialist for timber sale contracting? A. Advised, wheneverforests would call in or regional office wouldcall for advice and information, and I wouldadvise them on timber sale contracts, drat~ proposed contact provisions, newprovisions or clauses, whatever they neededfor a particular situation on a sale or something changed and had to be added to the national program. Q. What do you mean? What was the last thing you were saying? Changed? A. Yeah. Something they wanted to implement nationally in all regions on all sales, and I woulddraft the provisions to do that. 7 (Pages 22 to 25)

1111 14th Street,

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3
Washington, DC
Page 26

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 6 of 10
February.6, 2004

Page 28

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1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 those where we needed to on what we called C 9 provisions, which were special provisions 10 drafted to either do awaywith the standard 11 boiler plate or add to it. Q. And some of the C provisions were used 12 13 nationwide? 14 A. Oh, yes. Yeah. They didn't have to 15 be - they could be specific to a region, or 16 they could apply nationwide. Q. And how long were you doing this work? 17 18 A. Until I retired in 1994. In'89, and retired in '94. 19 20 Q. Did you do an~g else while you i 2t were in the Washingtonoffice? i 22 A. I drafted federal regulations for the 23 Log Export Control Act. 24 What else was it? Somesmall business 25 provisions or wheneverCongress, you know, Q. Andyou're talking standard provisions in timber sale contracts then? A. No - the special provisions in timber sale contracts. Standard provisions were the, you know,the boiler plate stuff was pretty much
Page 27

A. Oh, we usually had a team. There wouldbe myself as a contracting officer. Anotherspecialist wouldbe sale preparation. Youknow,maybea wildlife biologist wouldgo with us, and they wouldlook over the contract to sca if, diffcrant th~'~gaweware wor~gon to makesure they were living up to the EnvironmentalProtection standard provisions of the contracts. Q. Whenyou were doing these reviews, what role did you have specifically? A. Well, sometimes I would be the team leader. Sometimessomeoneelse would be, but it wouldbe the schedulingwith the forests and the regions and having then go on a show-me Basically they'd take us out and show us what they were doing and why, and then we would examinethe files and the documentationof the con~ractsand that kind of thing; just standard stuff, you know. Q. Do you rememberif you did any of these reviews in Region3 in 1992, 1993, 19947
Page 29

passed a new law involving Forest Service timber 2 sale activities, then we woulddratt a 3 regulation to implementit, and I was involved 4 in drafting regulations. 5 Q. Did you do anything else while you 6 were in the Washington office between 1989 and 7 the time you retired? 8 A. Youtravel out to the regions in 9 various national forests doing program reviews, 10 timber sale program reviews. 11 Q. What, what does that mean that you did 12 program reviews at regional offices? A. Similar to what I was doing with the 13 14 OGC;we would go out and review the operations 15 of a region or a particular forest to see that 16 they were, you know, working to the standards 17 and according to the laws and regulations as far 18 as their preparation of sales, administration of 19 contracts, using the contracts properly, 20 interpretation of contracts. 21 Q. Howoften would you do that sort of 22 work? 23 A. Twoor three times a year, we would go 24 out for maybe a month, two weeks sometimes. 25 Q. You say we. Whowould be we?

I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A. Yes. Wewere in Albuquerque in, gosh, I don't remember exact year, but a couple of the times. Wevalued a few of the forests, the KalbabNational Forest out of Flagstaff once or twice, the Prescott National Forest ha Williams? Is that right7 Mymemory it's been a while. Wasout at Tonto National Forest, a couple in NewMexico. Hm,I don't remember -- Carson all National Forest in NewMexico. I forget whereall we were, but we were, I was aroundseveral of the forests down there. Q. Whenyou were doing these reviews in Albuquerque, do you rememberabout what year it was that you did these reviews? A. From'91 tu '94; I don't remember the exact year, no. Q. Did you go out to Region3 every year? A. No. Q. Howwas it selected where you would go in a given year? A. Sometimesthe regional forester would request a review, and so we wouldgo to it, or 8 (Pages 26 to 29)

1111 14th Street,

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 7 of 10
February 6, 2004

Washington, DC Page 30 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 t0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 the chief salvager wouldjust decide it was time to go review something. If they were having problems teclmically with anything that was, that was affecting the sales or the, or the chiePs office wouldbe getting complaints from timber purchasers or whatever, that somebody doing was somethingthat they didn't think was right, why sometimes we'd go out and look into things like that. Q. Whenyou were doing your reviews in Region3, the one or two reviews you mentioned, what - howmanytimes did you go to Region 3 I guess I should ask you first, to do these sorts of program reviews? A. I don't recall exactly. It was two or three different times. Q. Andthis would be two or three different times between 1989whenyou got to the Washingtonoffice and 19947 A. Right. Q. When 1994 did you retire, do you in remember? A. September, September 30th. Q. Is there anything that stands out in
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companiesthat worked- actually it was an Indian tribe that had sometimber companies,and there was a guaranteed amountof volumethat they wouldreceive every year throughoutthe national forests, and they were having problems meetingthat guarantee, and shoot! I forgot the nameof the agreement. Do you rememberthat, Alan? MR.STEVENS: Let's just stick with what youcan recall. If you can't remember, that's understandable. MR. SALTMAN: Actually I don't know whatthe hell you'retalking about! THEWITNESS: Anyway, there was a special use-type agreement that they had with the Indian tribes to have so many timber sales a year and keep their people employed,keep the mills rurming. BY MR. HARRINGTON: Q. Okay. A. That was in NewMexico. Q. Wasthere anything else that you remember comingup in your reviews in Region 3? A. No. That's the one, that I remember
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your mind about your reviews in Region3 in Albuquerque? MR.STEVENS: you be a little more Can specific? Youwant the weather? Timeof day? Whathe had for dinner, that kind of thing? MR. HARRINGTON: Having to do with the programsthat the Forest Service was running out of Region3. MR. STEVENS: you mean specific Do activities he was involvedin? It's just a very broadquestion. That'sall. MR. HARRINGTON: I understand, and I'm interested to hear anythingthat he has a specific recollection of, and obviously I'll narrow things downsomewhat he has specific if recollections based on what he did. BY MR. HARRINGTON: Q. So do you know? MR. STEVENS: ahead. Go THEWITNESS: Well, Region 3 out of Albuquerque, of Santa Fe, they had a special out agreement with - I forget the exact term it's called -- the agreement with a couple of timber

I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

spendinga lot of time on that one. Q. Wasthere anything in particular that you were focused on when you were doing the reviews in Region37 A. Timbersale contract administration. Q. Do you remember reviewing any contracts held by Precision Pine &Timber? A. No. I knewof them, but I don't remember specific contracts. any Q. Whenyou say you knew of them, what did you knowof them? A. That they were a timber purchaser in Region3, primarily Arizona. Q. Did you knowanything else about them? A. Notreally. Q. Is there anythingelse that you remember about the reviews that you did out in Region 3 while you were in the Washington office? A. No. MR. STEVENS: you're asking just And if somethingvery specific pops into his mind? MR. HAR1LINGTON: (Indicated "yes.") MR. STEVENS: That's your intent? BY MR. HARRINGTON: 9 (Pages 30 to 33)

1111 14th Street,

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3
Washington, DC Page34

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 8 of 10
February 6, 2004

Page36 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 any contracts betweenthe Forest Service and Precision Pine? A. No. (Governmentcounsel conferred.) BY MR. HARtLINGTON: Q. Did you respond to any questions out of the regional office fl~at had beenasked about administration of Precision Pine's contracts? A. When was in the regional office? I Q. Whenyou were in Washington. A. Oh. Q. Did you respond to any questions from the regional office, Region3, about Precision Pine's conWacts? A. I don't recall any, no. IVlP,. HARRINGTON: Precision -- well, whydon't we go ahead, and we'll mark one? (Lewis Ex~bit No. was marked for identification.) BY MI~. H_ARRINGTON: Q. Have you read the second paragraph in this e-mail, Mr. Lewis? /vl~R. STEVENS: don't you? Why BY MR. I-IAR.RINGTON: Page37 1 Q. Please read the whole thing. Haveyou 2 read the second paragraph? 3 A. Yeah. Um-lma. Q. As you'll see, it says that you were 4 5 anticipated to offer testimony on the mechanics, 6 objectives, and implications of the Forest 7 Service timber sale program, including a number 8 of different areas? 9 A. Um-hrn. Yes. 10 Q. Do you have specialized knowledge 11 about the mechanics, objectives, and 12 implications of the Forest Service timber sale 13 program? MR. STEVENS: going to object I'm 14 15 because I think this actually has been asked and 16 answered. 17 Youhave gone through great detail 18 through his background, and I think that he's 19 spoken to you about and answered your questions 20 in great detail about all the various mechanics, 21 objectives and implications that he has been 22 available. 23 If youwantto ask it again, that's 24 fine, but I want the record to be clear he has 25 already responded to that question. 10 (Pages 34 to 37)

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Q. Did you have any involvement in awarding of the contracts at issue in this any case to Precision Pine? A. No. Wedidn't award contracts out of the Washington office. Q. Did you have any involvement in managing contracts at issue in this case? the A. No. Q. Do you rememberreviewing any of the contracts in this case while you werein the Washingtonoff~ce? A. No. Q. Do you remember having any involvement with any of the workthat Precision Pine was doing while you were with the Forest Service? MR. STEVENS: Would you repeat that question? THE REPORTER: Question: "Do you rememberhaving any involvement with any of the work that Precision Pine was doing while you were with the Forest Service?" MR. HARRINGTON: me try that Let question again: I think I mayhave phrased it inelegantly. BY MR. HAR_RINGTON: Page35

Q. Do you knowif you had any involvement 2 of any sort with the contracts awardedto 3 Precision Pine that are at issue in this action? 4 A. No, I had no involvement. I don't 5 even knowwhat contracts we're talking about. 6 Q. Did you have any involvement 7 concerning changes that the Forest Service made 8 after the MexicanSpotted Owl was listed as an 9 endangered species? 10 MR. STEVENS: Changes? 11 MR. HARR_UqGTON: his programs. In 12 THEWITNrESS: Changes tu conlracts? 13 MR. STEVENS: Could you just restate 14 the question? 15 MR. HAILRINGTON: Sure. 16 BY/vile. HARRINGTON: 17 Q. Did you have any involvement in any 18 changes to the Forest Service timber sale 19 program that were,made after the Mexican Spotted 20 Owl was listed as an endangered species? 21 MR.STEVENS: That you can recall. 22 THEWITNESS: don'trecall any I 23 specifics of the Mexican Spotted Owl. 24 BY MR. I-IARRINGTON: Q. Did you have any role in administering 25

1111 14th Street,

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronald D. Lewis

Document 315-3

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 9 of 10
February 6, 2004

Washington, DC
Page 38 Page 40

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MR. HARR1NGTON: Okay. Could you go ahead and read the question back? THE REPORTER: Question: "Do you have specialized knowledgeabout the mechanics, objectives, and implications of the Forest Service timber sale program?" THEWITNESS: guess I would have to I answer yes based on myexperience. BY MR. HARRINGTON: Q. AndI guess you're saying that you gained that specialized knowledge during your employment with the Forest Service? A. Yes. Q. Were you involved in any way with the Forest Service's small business programwhile you were with the, workedwith the Forest Service? A. To someextent; not a great deal. We haveanotherstaff specialist that helps us that ¯ works with the Small Business Administration people morethan I did, but I was involved occasionally. Q. What did you do on the small business program? A. Wehad an overall agreement with the
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MR. HARRINGTON:Yes. MR. STEVENS: he has it now about If Precision Pine & Timber? BY MR. HAR1LINGTON: Q. Did you have it while you ~vare with the Forest Service, any knowledge about the effect of contract suspensionson Precision Pine & Timber? A. Not Precision Pine specifically, no. Q. Do you have any knowledge now about the effect of contract suspensionson Precision Pine & Timber? A. No. Q. Do you have knowledge about Forest Service cruises? A. Yes. Q. What is a cruise? A. It's a measurement of the volume of, of timber in a particular timber sale, measure the trees in groundand measuretree heights, diameters and heights, and comeup with a gross volumeestimate, and then in that volume estimate, you deduct defects you see and so on. Q. So you have experience and knowledge about Forest Service cruises generally?
Page 41

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Small Business Administration, and we wouldhave to reviewand meet with themoccasionally to set up timber sales that wouldmeet the requirements for small business. Q. In your time in the Washington office, did you haveany responsibilities with respect to the small business program? A. Just advisory role. Q. Andwhenyou say an advisory role, what do you meanby that? A. I was familiar with regulations, and when regions or forests could call it and say whatdoes this mean,I wouldtry to interpret it for them. Q. So you ~ometimesresponded to questions concerningthe small business program? A. Yes. Q. Did you have specialized knowledge about the effect of contract suspensions? A. Yes. Q. Wouldyou have any specialized knowledge about the effect of contract suspensions on Precision Pine &Timber? MR. STEVENS: are you asking him Now if he, if he does have that knowledge?

t 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 11 12 13 14 15 16 ~ 17 i 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A. Yes. Q. Do you have any "knowledge about the cruises that were done on the Precision Pine contracts at issue in this case? A. No. Q. Do you know how they were performed? A. No. Q. Have you spoken to anyone who performedthe craises on Precision Pine's contract? A. No. Q. Do you have knowledge about Forest Service appraisals of contracts? A. Yes. did you gain that knowledge? Q. How A. From my work experience. Q. Has the waythe Forest Service has done appmlsals differed over time, to your knowledge? A. Well, there are several different ways to do appraisals, but basically, not much I could say. Q. Did you have any involvement in the appraisals done for the contract at issue in this case? 11 (Pages 38 to 41)

1111 14th Street,

Atderson Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Ronatd D. Lewis

Document 315-3

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 10 of 10
February 6, 2004

Washington, DC Page 42 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 i 17 i 18 i 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A. No. Q. Do you tmowanything about how the appraisals on the contracts at issue in this case were done? A. No, not without speculating. Q. Have you spoken to anyone at the Forest Service or otherwise who was invoNedin the appraisals on the contracts in this case? A. No. Q. Youmentioned,we talked just a little bit about domestic processing requirements. Yousaid there was a statute concerning domestic processing requirements? A. Yes. Q. Do yun lmowanything about how the domestic processing requirements were implemented the case of Precision Pine's in contracts? A. I knowhow they were supposed tn be. I don't imowhowthey were. Q. Whatdid you do tn prepare for your deposition here today? A. Absolutely nothing. Q. Youdidfft review any documents? A~ No. Page43 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 MR. HARaRINGTON: don't we take Why just a short break? I think I'm probably done, but let me mnthrough my notes and make sure. MR. STEVENS: Sure. (A recess was taken.) BY MR. HAILRINGTON: Q. Mr. Lewis, you testified that you know about the effect of suspensionsgenerally. Do you have any knowledgeabout the effect of the 1995, '96 suspensionon Precision Pine & Timber? A. Not specifically, no. I knewit happened.I read about it, but Q. Wheredid you read about it? A. Forest Service newsletters. Q. Whathave you done since you left the Forest Service? A. Wall, I movedup to Michigan, and I substitute teach at the high school mound there. Q. Have you done any other work? A. Occasional forestry consulting, but not, not too much. Q. What have you been doing as forestry 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page44 consulting work? 2 A. Mainly offthe Interact, drafting 3 responses to Forest Service proposals at one 4 time, and working with local farmers, advise 5 them on forest issues, some &their wood lots, 6 that kind of thing. 7 Q. "~,~no have you done cousulth~g work for 8 other than the local farmer you just mentioned? 9 A. Mr. Saltman -- or no. Excuse me. It I0 was not - the local -- it's about two, three 11 years ago. 12 The forest industry group here in 13 D.C., they have an office here. Itwas 14 concerning a proposed federal regulation. 15 Q. Have you worked with Mr. Saltman or 16 the Saltman & Stephens firm before? 17 A. No, not directly. Q. Howabout indirectly? 18 19 A. Through the American, the American 20 Wood Products Association -- is that what it's 21 called? Something like that, but I worked with 22 them, not directly for 23 Q. Have you testified in any cases since 24 you retired from the Forest Service? 25 A. No. Page45 Q. If you'll look at Exhibit 1, the first sentence refers to the mechanics,objectives, and implications of the Forest Service timber sale program. Do you knowanything that that refers to other than the things that are specifically listed afterwards? . MR.STEVENS: going to object to I'm the question because of its breadth, and you have just pointed to a specific sentence and with a few qualifying phrases afterwards and asked this witness if he remembered anyttfing or is awareof anythingother than that. And caution that this is just so I broad that he very well might not recall some specific or somepoint that maybe important tater on. Youcan ask the question if you want. I'm just makingthe point that the question is extremely broad. MR. HAILRJNGTON: Actually it may be better to ask it of you or Mr.Saltman, Is there any area that you anticipate Mr. Lewistestifying in other than those that are enumerated?Because as you point out, the 12 (Pages 42 to 45) 1111 14th Street, Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005