Free Motion in Limine - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM Martin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 1 of 11 Febraary 2004 12,

Overgaard, AZ Page 55 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 would would what But you would be one; they call have the size of the saw, that your you had on the, main saw, as to cut, the on

the setworks the headrig,

how it sets initial going

up the log for its initial a big determination

cut makes

of what's which the

to come have

out at the end; anything

and log size,

doesn't

to do particularly the, there

with

mill itself efficient and pieces try to have the average going

except

that

are more logs;

ways

of cutting

larger You kind

and smaller of make

of equipment. your

your, with you're

mill equipment

correspond that

size log that

you expect

to be getting Q. Would there be any other factors that

affect A.

the efficiency other

of the mill? factor and

Well,

than the human counting

how accurate

the guy is who's

the lumber the

and how accurate logs. I mean,

the guy is who is scaling can affect it, you know,

that

greatly. Q. information talking A. Q. I take it you wouldn't on the human as to -factor have any that you're

about No.

-- Precision

Pine's sales.

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. l l I 1 14thStreet, N.W. Suite4001-800-FOR-DEPO Washington,20005 DC

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Martin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 2 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 56

i 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 good Pine green what

A. You can't people Q.

You assume they were doing a good job. do anything should else. They have experienced

so they

know what

they are doing. lumber,

When you say the guy counting refer to?

does that A.

Well,

as the lumber

comes out on the into bundles. those boards

chain,

it's pulled

and stacked and count

Somebody by length of logs. calibrated
Qo

has to go through and determine And that's for that, And is that that how

the board

foot

in a bundle would be

the production

for the mill. the same as the scaling about? at the other measuring of

the logs A.

you were talking scaling, That's

No. The

that's

end of the process. the log going in.

when you're

And would equipment

the sawyer also have

operating a role

the to play in

in the mill

the efficiency? A. Oh, yes. The sawyer, a good sawyer Precision here to with

equipment.

And as

I understand, people

was one of the first a laser

around

install laser best

on the headrig, so that that.

the setworks, determine would the have

setworks, grade from

they could

And the sawyer

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. 1 t 11 14th Street, N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Martin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 3 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 59

1 2 3 4

roughly Q.

the same within Was there growing

this area. amount of taper

a pronounced

for the trees A. pretty

in this area? They would have been

Not particularly. average They for Ponderosa wouldn't have

pine in the been -- nothing out

6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25

southwest.

of the ordinary. Q. efficiency. Precision A. Lonnie told You talked about the saw curve that would affecting be with

Do you know Pine's three

what mills?

You know, I don't

remember

what it was. less

me. It is something of an inch,

considerably

than a quarter a point

and he gave

to it me in though, of

-- I don't

remember. something

As I recall,

it was something, about a 16th

in the neighborhood but I don't

of an inch

or less,

remember Q.

specifically. And you also mentioned Is that the laser the setworks that you were on

the headrig. talking A. where beam ahead it's about?

Yes. going

When

a log lays

up on the bed have a laser

to be sawed, run down blade

they

that would where that that,

and it would be going

project on the saw.

would

By knowing

you can turn

the log to get the

1111 14th Street,

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Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
MartinDevere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 4 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ
Page 63

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

the

dimension factor

lumber, for the

you --

would

get

a grade

or

overrun A. Q. A. Q. that you you

That's

correct.

-- shop. It's built right into the the process. Group page any study which of

Is it correct attached to the

that

Beck or

report, did

the study

attached

to the

report

not

Precision A. Q. Group

Pine's That's Why

mills? correct. you of choose actual to rely records on the from Beck

did

study

instead

Precision A. Precision Q. Precision A. there were

Pine? I didn't Pine. Do you Pine Not none know if any records from have actual records from

were at the

available? time that I -I asked, doing and this.

at the had

time been Pine,

that

I was

If there records a better overrun A. from

contemporaneous would what that an have been

Precision of

method would

determining

appropriate

be?

Oh, of course. What sort of records could you go to

Q.

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street, N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, 20005 DC

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
IVlartin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 5 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 68 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 did it. material change Q. facts point knew thought Q. was, that answered. You're free to answer the question. projections factor in the mid-1990s Pine that used the overrun 1.05 and 1.15? and

for Ponderosa MR. SALTMAN:

between Objection;

asked

THE WITNESS: I answered

I was going to say, I as well. Well, I guess my if you a 1.05

that already

BY MR. HARRINGTON: would it affect

your conclusion that was using

it was Mr. Porter factor.

or 1.15 overrun

MR. SALTMAN: not in evidence. But answer THE WITNESS: I would have

Objection.

That

assumes

the question

if you can. care who of the to

Well, I don't to know before

the accuracy it's going

that was there

my conclusion. BY MR. H/LRRINGTON: that all three In your report, are

you assuming Pine operated and the same A. Q. concerning

mills

that Precision equipment

had essentially efficiency?

the same

Yes. Do you have any personal Precision Pine's mills knowledge other than the

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. I 1 t I 14th Street, N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Martin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 6 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 72

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

equipment

in use at

any of the mills

studied

by

the Beck Group? A. equipment No, I don't. was used Since I don't know what that

-- I do know say,

the equipment Timber very in what also with had

was in there from, Company, similar they small logs.

Fort Apache

the closest

mill,

was actually

to what was used their

here at least They

considered

big mill.

a

log operation That would

that just been

operated

small

have

a separate

operation,

a little

more innovative. But for what was used in the mill was very

comparable similar. Q.

to this one,

the equipment

Would a mill lumber

that was looking achieve were

simply a higher

to

cut dimension overrun cutting A. be cutting log, which factor

generally that

than mills

not just

the dimension Assuming

lumber? to

that the mill that was going lumber was using they

the dimension is what,

a small would a

the only reason They Just would from

typically higher

do it, yes. factor.

be getting the -- as I

overrun

explained you'd

earlier,

just from

the measurements, factor.

be getting

a higher

overrun

1111 14th Street,

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Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Matin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 7 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 84

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25

kind have

of a trend a greater

as to the smaller overrun gone factor. through,

logs.

You

do the are

And that's which

for

one we've making

already

is they

dimension

lumber, formula.

but also

built

directly

into the Scribner

The smaller everything else,

logs,

if you discounted logs than are going to logs

the smaller factor

have a greater down to a point

overrun

the larger

of diminishing there

returns.

If you

got down to where or something that way. But, Scribner actual Q. doesn't largest A. Q. efficiencies A. Another

was only one 2x4 in a log it wouldn't quite work

like that,

the bigger

you go, the more directly affects the

to a certain

point

board

foot volume

in that log. here -- I mean, go from logs. it the

Would the variation drop straight off,

you know,

to the smallest Yeah. Would

on the bucked

the variation

be the result of

in the mills? To a certain extent, it could be. be reflecting there. Not every

way it might

be is, would

the actual There's

log that they're areas,

putting

varying

quality

of logs.

1111 t4th Street,

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Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
¯ Martin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 8 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 85

1 2 3

16-inch instance, that

log is of the same

quality

all over,

for

and so if somebody defective,

is cutting of knots,

up timber this type

is highly

lots

of thing, 5 6 7 8 9 I0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 that tell efficiency, that's have three that

it's going same

to be different has clear

than

if they

log that

sides

on, say on to have

sides,

what-have-you,

and is going

some shop. So it would reflect to a certain extent

but it also through

reflects

the type of log

going

the mill. anything else away, the of I can

Without you that mill

giving

the one from the southwest, falls right close

closest this

to the center three

page.

You can pick right

out maybe

different of the

mills, page. Q.

and it's

close

to the center

Well,

I'm afraid, Mr. Devere,

if you want to make you're going to have

assertion,

to give away more than that. A. Well, I don't know that I can do that. at is the center going on.

But it's -- what portion is pretty

I'm getting average

as to what's

And the way they have just here the way it works. in the southwest

it laid out here, And, so, your

that's dowm

mills

are going

to fall

into that,

1111 14th Street,

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Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
belartin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 9 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 92

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 I0 Ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A.

Basically,

I'm sure they

were cutting

just dimension.

Q.
account A.

So would

that

be something factor

that there?

would

for the high overrun Yes. What over. Did you look you were

Q.
me start

talking

about

-- well,

let

at any of Precision average log size

Pine's that it

records

to determine

what

was running A. Q. length length? A. Q. connection A. the same

in the mid 1990's? It's strictly word of mouth. to a log 16 feet the bucked log in

No.

When it's referring in your report, is that

Yes. Does the bucked log length to overrun? No. It shouldn't. thing You're that going that to get bucked is like have a

-- the only time have an effect there

log length

would

on overrun

the very first logs. they

example

where

it was large sizes, or shop and

And by trimming could

the log to those high-grade down

get an increased

molding point,

out of it. When it's not going

you get

to a certain

to have

any effect

Alderson Reporting Company,Inc. 1 ! 11 14th Street, N.W. Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, DC 20005

Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Martin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 10 of 11
February 12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ

Page 103

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25
in

That's to make Q. it clear.

what Was

I want to make I being clear?

--

I wanted

I am not sure. MR. SALTM_A/~: THE WITNESS: Neither am I. All right. Let me go ahead and

Q.

BY MR. HARRINGTON: --

just ask some questions A. Q. in response speaking. Just your report, talking Okay.

All right. I don't think that was really

-- because

to any of my questions,

strictly

about

the conclusions were based

in

those

conclusions

on the

Beck study? A. experience. Q. Beck study A. Q. the mill was there anything basing written besides the on? The Beck study and 40 years' of

that you're

your conclusions case, no.

Not for this particular Aside from the limited that

role that you had

with Apache

you discussed the

earlier,

did you have

any role in preparing

Beck study? MR. SA/~TM_AN: characterization of his Objection limited to that His role is

role.

1111 14th Street,

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Case 1:98-cv-00720-GWM
Martin Devere

Document 313-4

Filed 04/18/2005

Page 11 of 11
February12, 2004

Overgaard, AZ Page 104 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 i0 ii 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 25 you the think report of these through Q. overrun A. take this for itself. MR. THE study? it SALTMAN: WITNESS: No. when We in We they It does. In the it, it and the preparation yes, and of went board that no. of what it is. MR. HARRINGTON: His testimony speaks

reviewed presented through it

through

to the did it

directors. way. The But Beck

went

the

preparation what did. they

of

numbers, hired

-- that's what they

were

to do and

so that's Q. itself, was done A. back

BY MR. the and full the

HARRINGTON: report,

Does

the how

report this study

describe

methodologies I believe it

used? does. at I'm the having full -- most they all go to

Yes. now

from years

when ago,

looking but do I'm

several reports the

sure

that

they

like

that,

methodology. And does it include were do out a methodology on how

numbers Well, you

calculated? that and the the same logs way. in and I mean, you

the the not

lumber

calculate So that's

overrun, a -yes.

which It

is the would

difference. been done

have

Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 1111 14th Street, N.W.Suite 400 1-800-FOR-DEPO Washington, 20005 DC