Free Motion in Limine - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 1 of 28

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
)
) )

WALTER JAYNES; PAUL S. SCOTT; DAVID S. PETERSON; DONALD BAKER; GORDON D. HANBERG; et aI.,
Plaintiffs,

)
)

NO.04-856C
Judge Miller

vs.
THE UNITED STATES,

) )
) )

)
) ) )

Electronically Filed on

Defendant.

DECLARATION OF

JENNIFER AMANDA KRBS

I, Jennfer Amanda Krebs, aver as follows:
1. I am one of the attorneys of record for the Plaintiffs in this lawsuit. I am over the
age of 18, have personal knowledge of

the matters stated in this declaration and am competent to

testify to those matters.
2. Attached to this Declaration as Exhibit A are true and correct copies of excerpts
from the June 27, 2006 deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken.

3. Attached to this Declaration as Exhibit B are true and correct copies of excerpts

from the Septeniber 12, 2006 deposition of A. Rodger Brown.
4. Attached to this Declaration as Exhibit C are true and correct copies of excerpts
i from the June 26,2006 deposition of

Mary Jane Tallman.
penalty of perjury under the laws ofthe state of Washington

I declare under

that the

foregoing is true and correct to the best of my knowledge and belief.

Je ifer anda Krebs

rvey Schubert Barer
1 191 Second Avenue

u.

18th Floor, 2nd & Seneca Building

October 20, 2006
KRBS DECLARA nON - i
SEA_DOCS:822563.2

Seattle, Washington 98101-2939 Tel: 206-464-3939 Fax: 206-464-0125

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 2 of 28

CERTIFICATE OF SERVICE
I hereby certify on October 20,2006, a copy of

the foregoing "DECLARTION OF
this filing

JENNIFER AMDA KRBS" was fied electronically. I understand that notice of

wil be sent to all paries by operation of

the Cour's electronic filing system. Paries may access

this filing through the Cour's system.
Isl Donald B. Scaramastra Donald B. Scaramastra Jennifer A. Krebs

Garvey Schubert Barer
18th Floor
1 191 Second Avenue

Seattle, WA 98101
Telephone (206) 464-3939

Facsimile (206) 464-0125 Attorneys for Plaintiffs

KRBS DECLARA nON - 2
SEA_DOCS:822563.2

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 3 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Barr Joe Aiken

Page 1 Ii,

1

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

i
),

2

WALTER JAYNES,
3

PAUL S. SCOTT,

)
)

DAVID S. PETERSON, DONALD BAKER,
and GORDON D. HANBERG,

et al.,

)
)

4

Plaintiffs,
5

)
)

vs.
6

)
)

No. 04-856C

THE UNITED STATES,
7

)
)

.:

Defendant.
8

)

I,'

I

9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF BARRY JOE AIKEN Tuesday, June 27, 2006

I

Exhibit A
'" m ....m

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 4 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of Bar Joe Aiken

Page 158

1

Q

So you had not seen any version of the grievance decision

2 3
4

until after you walked into the room with Ms. Tallman on
January 14th?
A
Q
She is the one that presented me a copy

of that document.

5 6
7
8

And the first time you saw a copy of that document was

when she gave it to you during that meeting on January

14th, right?
A
Q

I believe so.

9

Can you recall why Mr. Hamel might not have attended this
January 14, 2000, meeting?

10
11 12
A
Q

Why he did not attend it?

Yes.
I have no idea.

13
14

A
Q

Tell me everything that you and Ms. Tallman talked about
during this 9 a.m. meeting on January 14th, 2000.

15

16
17 18

A

What we talked about? I read her proposed decision. I
said, I cannot corni t myself to a yes or no without

talking it over with my chief steward first.
Q

19

What did Ms. Tallman tell you during the course of this

20
21 22
A
Q

meeting aside from that she'd run it by the powers that
be and they were in general agreement to it?
That was basically it.
Did she present it as a take' it or leave it?

23
24

A
Q

I'm going to say yes.
Okay. Did she insist at this Æeeting that you sign the

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 5 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Barr Joe Aiken

Page 159

1

decision?
A
Q

2 3
4

No.
Did she make ita condition to her signing the decision
that you sign it with her?

5
i

A
Q

I don't believe she did.

6
7
8

Did she tell you what her expectations were with respect to the union if she signed the grievance decision she put
in front of you on January 14th?

9

A
Q

You need to rephrase your question.

10 11 12 13
14

Did she tell you that she expected the union to drop the

grievance if she signed the grievance decision that she
had handed you on January 14, 2000?
A
Q

Can't drop the grievance.

All right. Let me put ita different way.

Did she tell

15 16
17
18
A
Q

you that she expected the union not. to demand arbitration

if she signed the grievance decision th~t she handed you
on January 14?

No.
Did that topic ever come up during your conversation, the

19

20 21
22
A
Q

topic of whether the union would demand arbitration if
she signed the grievance decision?

No.
Did you corni t at any point not to seek arbitration if

23
24

you signed the grievance decision she put in front of

25
:"'.:"':,.':" '::' ":,,'

you?
.--,:.,. -:,,' .' '--:.'

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 6 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 160

1 2

A
Q

No.
Did you make that corni tment at any other time after

3
4

January 14th?
A

Gi ve me your question back.

5
6
7 8 9
Q

(Question on Page 160, Lines 2 through 3,

read by the reporter.)
THE WITNESS: And the question was?

Let's -MR. MAGER: You might want to go back to

I

what

10 11 12 13
14
A
Q Q

that corni tment was.

You had a January 14th meeting with Ms. Tallman, did you
have any meetings with Ms. Tallman after January 14th but
before the grievance decision was signed?

No.
Okay. So the grievance decision ultimately is signed on
January 18th, Tuesday, January 18th. It's your testimony
that you did not meet with Ms. Tallman again on January

15

16
17

18

18th.
A

19

I needed to talk to my chief steward on settling the

20 21
22
Q

grievance.
Right. But did you hav~ another meeting with Ms. Tallman
regarding the grievance decision on January 18, 2000, the

I

23
24
A
Q

date she signed it?
15th and 16th are Saturday and Sunday.

25

Correct.
.,.

..,'..""",

..

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 7 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 161

1 2

A

Then Monday was a day in which I talked to Mr. Hamel and

let him review the proposed set tlemen t.
Q

3
4

So --

A
Q

Tuesday I signed the document.

5
6 7
8

All right. And so that's a roundabout way of saying that
you did not have another meeting with Ms. Tallman
regarding the grievance decision between your meeting on
January 14th, 2000, and the time you signed the grievance decision on January 18th; is that correct?

9

10
11 12 13
14

A
Q

As far as I remember, yes.

Okay. So we only have one -- this is good. So we only
have one meeting between you and Mrs. Tallman that we've

got to zero in on. Okay. During that meeting, did you
have any discussion -- first of all, during that meeting
did you promise that the union would not seek arbitration if Ms. Tallman signed the grievance decision she put in
front of you?
A
Q

15

16
17 18

No.
Did that topic even come up during your conversation with
Ms. Tallman?

.

19

20 21
22
A
Q

Not that I remember.

I

Okay. During your January 14, 2000, meeting with Ms.
Tallman regarding the draft grievance decision, did you discuss specifically whether individual grievants would
gi ve up their right to sue in federal court if you signed
I

23
24

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 8 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 162

1

the grievance decision?
A

2 3
4

Did they give up their right to sue in federal court? If
the grievance is resolved, sustained, then it is settled.
That particular item has been finished.

5 6 7
8

Q

Did you discuss the possibility that individuals might
sue for back pay, back high pay in federal court?

A
Q

I was never aware of that.

So that was not a subj ect of discussion?
That was not a subj ect.
Between you and Ms. Tallman?

9

A
Q

10 11
12

A

That's right.
down the road.

I was not made aware of this until months

13
14

Q

So it was not

let me start over. Ms. Tallman never
"

told you that one condition to her signing the employee

15 16
17
18
A
Q

grievance decision was that the union waive the rights of
its members to sue in court for high pay, right?

There was never any mention of suing.
I need you to answer my question.
,

19

MR. SCARAASTRA: Go ahead and read it back.

20
21 22 23
24
Q

(Question on Page 162, Lines 13 through 16,

read by the reporter.)
THE WITNESS: And my answer is, the discussion
of a suit was never discussed.

So the answer to my question is no, isn't it?
I

25

A

If you want to put it that way, then the answer is no.

I

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 9 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 178

1

A
Q

I'm guessing.
And so when he said, Well, I don't want to bone the
shipyard or the other shipwrights --

2

3
4

A
Q

Not the shipwrights, the shipyard.

5
6

Okay. So you took it that he was coming at it this way:
I know we have a strong case, but I really want to give

7
8

the shipyard a whopping with my strong case?
A
Q

That's his perception.

I I I

9

Okay. I understand it's not yours necessarily, but
that's how you took it.

10 11 12

He thought he had a strong case, arid he didn't want to put the shipyard through the
discomfort of losing that strong case.
Over us losing it in arbitration.

i

I

13
14

A
Q

After you spoke with Mr. Hurm and Mr. Hamel and you
decided this grievance decision was okay by you, what did
you do next?

15

16
17 18
A

Went back to Mary Jane Tallman's office on the 18th of
January and signed off on the grievance.
I i

19

Q

Again, you did not meet with her when you went in to do
that; is that right?

20 21
22
A
Q

Was she present when I signed off on the grievance?

Yes.
Yes, she was.
I,

23
24

A
Q

She was present. D~d you have any discussion with
Ms. Tallman on January 18th regarding anything?

I

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 10 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Barr Joe Aiken

Page 179

1

A

Other than Mr. Winkler and I would work out all the rest
of the information on how much -- who is going to get

2

3
4
Q

what and...
Did you have any other discussion about what the

5 6
7
8

grievance decision meant or what would happen, other than you and Mr. Winkler were going to work out the back pay

awards?
A

I believe that that would be not a case precedent setting
for future grievances.

9

10 11
12

Q

So you told Ms. Tallman, this grievance decision will not

be a precedent in the event that future grievances for
high pay come up; is that right?
A
Q

13
14

Did I tell her that?

Yes.
No. I assumed that that is the reading they put on the
end of every grievance.

15

A

16
17
Q

That's the wording you typically insist on in a grievance

18

decision -A

19 20

No, that's the wording that management typically insists

on.
Q

21
22

Okay. And did you want that wording in or out of the
grievance decision?

23
24

A
Q

I don't recall it was in there at all.

Did you want that wording in if it was not? What I'm
getting at is did you view that wording as something that

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourt A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 11 of 28

, 6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 183

1 2 3
4

words anywhere in Exhibit 18?
A
Q

Oversight.
Just an oversight. Okay. Have you signed settlement
agreements before, Mr. Aiken?

5 6
7 8 9

A
Q

This is the first one of this magnitude.

Have you ever signed a document that was denominated a
settlement agreement?

A
Q

Monetary settlement?

Correct.
No.
So for example if you look at Exhibit 43, you'll see
"

10
11 12

A
Q

something that's called a settlement agreement. Now I
recognize that's not your signature.
A
Q

13
14

I know Mr. Healey well.

15 16
17 18

You know Mr. Healey well. Okay. Are you familiar with
,

the settlement agreement that's embodied in Exhibit 43?
A
Q

Yes.
You'd seen it before January 18th, 2000?
This particular issue here?
Exhibit 43, yes.

19

A
Q

20
21 22

A
Q

Yes.
Can you find me the language in Exhibit 43 that indicates
it's a full and final resolution of the grievance?

23
24
A
Q

Paragraph 5, line 5.
,

25

Paragraph 5, line 5. The first line of paragraph 5?

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

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Filed 10/20/2006

Page 12 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 1 84

1

A
Q

There's only one line of paragraph 5.

I

2 3
4

Yes. Okay. You're tal king about, "The parties agree
this settlement will not be considered precedential "?

I

A

"For any future environmental differential dispute
between the parties."

5 6
7 8 9
Q

You see any other language that indicates that it's a
full and final resolution of the grievance?

A
Q

Subparagraph b.
3 (b). Paragraph 3, subparagraph b?

,

10
11
12

A
Q

Yes.
Okay.
For all employees -- qualifying employees for work
performed to be completed.

A

13
14
Q

Any other language that you see in Exhibit 43 that
indicates that it is a full and final resolution of the

15 16
17
A
Q

grievance?

Other than paragraph 4.
Okay.
And, "The parties agree to attempt to mutually resolve
complaints raised by employees assigned to Code 350 who

18

19 20 21 22

A

believe they were not properly compensated under the
terms of this agreement."
Q

23
24

Mr. Aiken, was the shipwrights' high-pay grievance the .
largest grievance that you had handled as a steward of
record in terms of number of grievants?
,','

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 13 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 185

1

A
Q

Yes.
Was it also the largest grievance you'd handled as
steward of record in terms of the potential money at

2

3
4

stake?
A
Q

5
6 7
8

Yes.
Have you handled anything larger since January 18, 2000,

as a steward of record? Let me clarify: Have you
handled any grievances as steward of record since January
18, 2000, that were as large or larger than the
shipwrights' high-pay grievance?
A
Q

9

10 11
12

Could have been.
But you don't know as you sit here today?
Well, the grievance was denied based on timeliness.

13
14

A
Q

Which one was that?
The insulator high-pay grievance.

15

A
Q

16
17

So the only other grievance that you handled that would
have been as large or larger than the shipwrights'

18

high-pay grievance was the insulators' high-pay

19

grievance?
A

20 21
22

That's correct.
(Exhibit Number 89 marked for identification.)

Q

Showing you what's been marked as Exhibit 89. Mr. Aiken,
have you seen that before?

23
24
A
Q

No, I have not.

25

Now, that is a document that addresses a high-pay

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

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6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 187

1 2
Q

this is the end, that this is the final settlement.

You can set Exhibit 89 aside. As you sit here today,
apart from what you've already described, can you
describe any specifics of the conversation you had with

3
4

5

Ms. Tallman on either January 14th, 2000, or January
18th, 2000?
A
l

6
7
8

The conversation I believe we had on the 14th was, The
key players are in agreement to say yes on the terms of
this particular settlement.

I

9

I came back and said, I will

10
11

not accept this without going and talking to my chief

steward.
Q

12

Did you play any role in the physical drafting of what
became Exhibit 18?

13
14
A
Q

I'm going to go back to Exhibit 18.
I

15

Sure.
No.
I have a couple questions just to follow up on specifics

16
17

A
Q

18

on what you can and can't remember since I think we've

19

exhausted what you can remember specifically of your
conversation with Ms. Tallman.

20 21
22

I gather as you sit here

today that you can't remember specifically using the

phrase "full and final resolution" or the phrase "full
and final settlement" during your conversations with Ms.

23
24

Tallman on January 14th or January 18th, 2000; is my

25
"

understanding correct?
,.,.

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

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Filed 10/20/2006

Page 15 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Barr Joe Aiken

Page 188

1 2 3
4

A
Q

No, your understanding is not correct.

So you can specifically remember something--

A
Q

Not---on that subj ect?

5 6 7
8

A
Q

--that I specifically remember.

What's that?
Not that I can specifically remember.
I'm trying to
,

A

remember.
Q

9

Okay.
Trying to visualize this, as I'm a spatial type person.
Let that right brain go to work.

,

10 11
12 13
14

A
Q

A

You know, I'm not going to say defini ti ve to something I

:

cannot say yes or no to.
Q

Okay.

So you're not in a position to testify under oath

15

in court under penalty of perjury that you used the words
"full and final settlement" or the words "full and final
resolution" during your January 14th and January 18th,

16
17 18

2000, conversations with Ms. Tallman, right?
A
Q

19

Did I use those specific words?

20
21 22 23
24

Right.
I know the answer' you're looking for, but my answer is, I

A

felt that when I put my signature on this line, that that

,

was the full and final settlement without having to say
the words, that I signed off on this document as the
representati ve of the union, that that was the full and
I

25

I

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

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Filed 10/20/2006

Page 16 of 28

6/27/2006 Deposition of

Barr Joe Aiken

Page 189

1 2
Q

final settlement.
Let's a

3
4

A

Whether I said those words exactly -- to that words or

not, that's what I'm saying. When I signed that
document, that's what I meant.
Q

5 6
7 8 9

We need to go back and get an answer to my question. I

understand that's the question you want to answer. My
question to you is you're not in a position to testify
under oath under penalty of perj ury in court that you

10
11 12

ever used the words "full and final settlement" or "full

and final resolution" during your January 14th and
January 18th, 2000, conversations with Ms. Tallman, are

13
14

you?
MR. MAGER: And I'm gòing to obj ect to the
extent the witness isn't competent to testify, except as

15

16
17 18

he si ts here today, what he believes. Although you can
answer that question.

THE WITNESS: Did I verbally speak those words?
Q

19

20 21
22

A
Q

A
Q

23
24

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

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6/27/2006 Deposition of

Bar Joe Aiken

Page 190

1

"full and final resolution" or "full and final

2 3
4

settlement" during your conversations with Ms. Tallman on
January 14th and January 18th, 2000, are you?
A
Q

Not that I can recall.

5
6
7
8

Same question on the other side. You aren't able, as you
si t here today, to testify defini ti vely that Ms. Tallman

ever used the words "full and final resolution" or "full

and final settlement" during your conversations with her

9

on January 14th and January 18,2000, can you?
A

10 11 12

Wi thout a written record what transpired in that office,

no.
d

Q

Now, let's go to the final set of questions I have for

13
14 15

you. And I know nobody regrets that more than you. I
want to talk about what happened a little bit after this

grievance decision. In your view that grievance decision
that was signed represents a settlement of the grievance
between the union and management, and I understand that.
Now, I want to take up the subj ect of what you did after

16
17 18

19

that. First of all, what was done to notify the
indi vidual grievants of the grievance' decision?
A
Q

20

21
22 23
24

It was verbally conveyed on the waterfront.

Verbally conveyed by whom?
From the superintendent to the supervisors.

A
Q

The superintendent being Ms. Tallman?
Mm-hm (answers affirmatively).

25

A

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 100 I Fourth A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

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Filed 10/20/2006

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6/27/2006 Deposition of

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Page 209 iii:

1

CERTIFICATE
STATE OF WASHINGTON)

2 3
4

County of King )

) ss

i

5

I, the undersigned Notary Public in and for the State of Washington, do hereby certify:
That the annexed transcript of the Tuesday, June 27, 2006, Deposition of BARRY JOE AIKEN was taken stenographically by me and reduced to typewriting under my direction;

6
7
8 9

10
11 12 13
14

I further certify that I am not a relative or an employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties to said action, or a relative or employee of any such attorney or counsel, and that I am not financially interested in the said action or outcome thereof;
I further certify that the annexed transcript of the Tuesday, June 27, 2006, Deposition of BARRY JOE AIKEN is a full, true, and correct transcript, including all objections, motions, and exceptions of counsel made and taken at the time of the foregoing proceedings.

,.,

"

15 16
17 18

, , ,

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my Official Seal this 7th day of July, 2006.

19 20 21

22 23
24 25
',,:::,,::'::::,:' "::::.,-::.. "::','::..,
,,',',' ,."".

Katie J. Nelson, CCR, RPR Notary Public in and for the State of Washington, residing in Kenmore. My Commission expires October 19, 2007 CCR License No. 2971

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourt Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 19 of 28

9/12/2006 Deposition of A. Rodger Brown
Page 1

1

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

2

WALTER JAYNES, PAUL S. SCOTT,

3 DAVID S. PETERSON, DONALD BAKER,
and GORDON D. HANBERG, et al.,
4

Plaintiffs,
vs.
No. 04-856C

5

6

THE UNITED STATES,
7

Defendant.
8

9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF A. RODGER BROWN
Tuesday, September 12, 2006

Exhibit B

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 20 of 28

9/12/2006 Deposition of A. Rodger Brown
Page 32

1

about either the calculation of the back high-pay amounts
or whether or not interest would be paid?
A
i I

2

3
4

To wi thin a month or two from now, I didn't know how much

we'd paid or how many people got paid.
Q

5
6

Okay.

So I am going to move on, I promise, but if you

just bear with me while I review.

7
8 9

So my understanding of ~hat you're saying is that

you had no involvement in the grievance resolution
,

process from the time the grievance was filed until the
grievance decision was issued?
A
Q

10

11 12 13
14

That's correct.
You had no involvement in drafting the grievance
decision, the language of the grievance decision, how it
would be signed, the form it would take?

15
16
17 18

A
Q

Correct.
And you had no role in calculating the high-pay award,

any type of discussions that went on with regard to that?
A
Q

That's correct.
Thank you very much. Now I'm going to move on.
1

19

20 21 22 23
24

So in 2002, there was a grievance brought by Mark
1

Mascioli regarding his involvement with high work and the

fact he hadn't received high pay. Can you describe to me
what you know about that grievance and the subsequent

resolution?
A

25

Sure.
I

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 100 I Fourth A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 21 of 28

9/12/2006 Deposition of A. Rodger Brown

2 STATE OF WASHINGTON )

1 CERTIFICATE
) ss

Page 63

3 County of King )
4

5 I, the undersigned Notary Public in and for the State
of Washington, do hereby certify:
6

7 That the annexed transcript of the Tuesday, September
12, 2006, Deposition of A. RODGER BROWN was taken 8 stenographically by me and reduced to typewriting under my

direction;

10 I further certify that I am not a relative or an
employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties to said 11 action, or a relative or employee of any such attorney or counsel, and that I am not financially interested in the said

9

12 action or outcome thereof; 13
I further certify that the annexed transcript of the 14 Tuesday, September 12, 2006, Deposition of A. RODGER BROWN is a full, true, and correct transcript, including all objections,

15 motions, and exceptions of counsel made and taken at the time
of the foregoing procèedings.

16

17 IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and
affixed my Official Seal this 25th day of September, 2006.
18 19

20 21
22
Katie J. Nelson, CCR, RPR Notary Public in and for the State of Washington, residing in Redmond. My Commission expires October 19, 2007 CCR License No. 2971

23
24 25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 22 of 28

6/26/2006 Deposition of

Mar Jane Tallman
I

Page 1

1

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
"

2

3

WALTER JAYNES, PAUL S. SCOTT, DAVID S. PETERSON, DONALD BAKER, and GORDON D. HANBERG, et al.,

4

Plaintiffs,
5

vs.
6

"

No. 04-856C
.'

THE UNITED STATES,
7

Defendant.
8

9

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

DEPOSITION UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF MARY JANE TALLMAN Monday, June 26, 2006
,

I

, ,

Exhibit C

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 23 of 28

6/26/2006 Deposition of

Mar Jane Tallman
Page 91

1 2

64 shipwrights?
A
Q

No, only as stated in the union contract.

3
4

Did it, and I don't mean this to sound argumentative, but
I can't think of a better way to ask it and I apologize.

5
6 7
8 9

During the course of the handling of the grievance

decision, did it occur to you at some point that it might be a good idea to get a legal opinion from counsel as to
..

what the shipyard was legally obligated to in terms of
paying high pay to shipwrights?
A

10 11
12

No. We solve -- I hear many second-level grievances.

1

And I don't take them to legal. They're basically
they're not in my chain. If I had a question, I'd go to HR or I'd go to my admin. But the grievance procedure is
outlined in the metal trades contract and it specifies
,

13
14

15

16
17

what we do. And so to me a grievance procedure is a workplace settlement. It's a workplace dispute

resolution.
Q

It's not a legal matter.

18

During the course of your career as a superintendent, how

19

many grievances have you handled where there were 100 or
more employees that were parties to the grievance?
A
Q

20
21 22 23
24

These two were unique.
Meaning the high pay one and insulator òne?

I

I

A

Yes. And that's why I had HR involved. Now that's in my
chain. Legal is not in my chain of command.

25

Q
,

Okay.

Is there a procedure whereby you can request legal
,

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourh A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 24 of 28

6/26/2006 Deposition of Mar Jane Tallman
Page 143

1

Q

Exhibi t 69 should be a full, complete copy of the

2 3
4

grievance. And if you turn to Page 2 of the exhibit,
it's a form, you'll see in the top right corner under
numeral 22, Date of meeting 1/14/00?
A
Q
II

5 6
7
8

Okay.
And below that in box 24 there's a signature. Whose
I

signature is that?
A
Q

Mine.
When did you sign?
Looks like the 18th of January of 2000.

9

10
11
12

A
Q

Did you fill in the text that appears above that in boxes
19, 20, 22 and 23?

13
14

A
Q

No.
Do you recognize that handwriting?

15

A
Q

No.
Given that you signed this on the 18th and right above it it indicates there was a meeting on the 14th, are you
able to tell me as you sit here today whether, in fact, a
meeting was held on the 14th?

I

16
17 18

19

20 21
22

A
Q

Did I remember the meeting, no.

Was a meeting held?

A

That I signed this saying there was a meeting, yes, I
would say there was a meeting.

23
24
Q

Was there, in fact, a meeting on January 14, 2000,
regarding the grievance?

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 25 of 28

6/26/2006 Deposition of

Mary Jane Tallman
Page 175

1 2

A
Q

18?
18 will be .in the binder.

3
4

A
Q

It's my handwriting.

Who dated Mr. Aiken's signature?
I don't know.
I

5
6 7
8 9

A
Q

It's not your handwriting?

A
Q

No.
All right. See if we can summarize a few things. You
never discussed the subj ect of possible future lawsuits

10 11
12
A
Q

wi th Mr. Aiken or Mr. Hamel, did you?
No.
Mr. Aiken never promised that individual shipwrights
would not bring lawsuits for high pay in court, right?
A

,

I 1 I

13
14

We never discussed future lawsuits because both of us
fel tit was totally resolved.

15

16
17

Q

You never talked with him or made clear that a condition
to your signing Exhibit 18 was that no lawsuits be

18

19

A
Q

brought? Never discussed lawsuits.
'¡

20
21
22

Okay. And you never discussed the individual rights of
shipwrights to bring suits for individual relief in
court, did you?
i i i

23
24 25

A
Q

We never discussed lawsuits.

Of any sort?
I was under the understanding that the BMTC was the
'""",'..',....",

A

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, WA 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 26 of 28

6/26/2006 Deposition of

Mar Jane Tallman

Page 183

1

MR. SCARASTRA: Just

one second. Go off the

2

record.
(Discussion held off the record.)
Q

3
4

Just some cleanup, then and I think we can finish up on

5
6
7 8

the subject of accord and satisfaction. So I just have
some questions of overview of everything we've discussed

today. First, would it be fair to say that you cannot
recall any specific conversation between you and any

9

union steward regarding the shipwrights' high-pay
grievance after May 20, 1999?
A
Q

10
11

I know they happened, but I don't recall specifics.

12 13
14

So you can't tell me, for example, when those meetings

took place, right?
A
Q

No.
Can't tell me how long they were--

15

16
17 18

A
Q

No.

--right?
Right.

Can't tell me who was there, right?

A
Q

19

Can't tell me what specifically was said at any of those

20
21 22
A
Q

meetings, right?
Ri g h t .

,

I also gather that you can't recall any of the specifics
I

23
24

of the draftings of what became your employee grievance decision that's Exhibit 18; is my understanding fair?
A

I

25

Specifics, meaning the tour of the boat.

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., i 00 i Fourh A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 27 of 28

6/26/2006 Deposition of

Mar Jane Tallman
Page 184

1 2 3
4

Q

Let me start over. As I understand it, you cannot recall
any of the specifics surrounding the drafting of the
language that was included in the employee grievance
decision, which is Exhibit 18?
, ,

5 6 7
8

A
Q

That's true.
Until you prepared for this deposition on Friday, you
could not recall any of the specifics from Exhibit 11,

Ms. Niemi's report to you, could you?
A
Q

9

Except that I knew I used it, no.

10 11
12

And okay. So what you could remember was you had used
language from Exhibit 11 to draft what became your
grievance decision, right?
I

13
14

A
Q

Right.
I

Okay.

And you adopted virtually verbatim the description

15

of work that was subject to high pay from Exhibit 11 and
incorporated that into your grievance decision, right?
A
Q

16
17
18

Looks like it.

As of January 18, 2000, you saw no reason to think that
any of the decisions reflected in Exhibit 18 were
incorrect in any way, right?
I i

19

20
21
22
A
Q

i I

Right.
I

We've covered the legally required things.

I think we
,

23
24

can move on on that one. We did talk about this, the
issue of you not doing any legal research or any research
regarding the legal requirements done up to January 18,

25

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth A venue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044

Case 1:04-cv-00856-GWM

Document 112-2

Filed 10/20/2006

Page 28 of 28

6/26/2006 Deposition of Mar Jane Tallman
I

Page 202

1

CERTIFICATE
STATE OF WASHINGTON )

I

2
3
4

County of King )

) ss

5 6
7
8

I, the undersigned Notary Public in and for the State of Washington, do hereby certify:
That the annexed

transcript of the Monday, June 26,

2006, Deposition of MARY JANE TALLMAN was taken stenographically by me and reduced to typewriting under my

direction;
9

,

10
11 12 13 14

I further certify that I am not a relative or an employee or attorney or counsel of any of the parties to said action, or a relative or employee of any such attorney or counsel, and that I am not financially interested in the said action or outcome thereof;
I further certify that the annexed transcript of the Mònday, June 26, 2006, Deposition of MARY JANE TALLMAN is a full, true, and correct transcript, including all obj ections, motions, and exceptions of counsel made and taken at the time of the foregoing proceedings.

15

16
17 18 19

IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto set my hand and affixed my Official Seal this 5th day of July of 2006.
I.

20 21
.

22

23
24 25

Katie J. Nelson, CCR, RPR Notary Public in and for the State of Washington, residing in Kenmore. My Commission expires October 19, 2007 CCR License No. 2971

I

~

'" ",,,,,,'

:,':"....---::,.:.:;-'-'. -,.

Melissa J. Watkins & Associates, Inc., 1001 Fourth Avenue Plaza, Suite 4400, Seattle, W A 98154 - Tel (206) 622-4044