Free Response to Motion - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH
Wi tness:

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 1 of 8

vickie A. Walker
Page 1

1
2

UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERA CLAIMS
ALPHA I, L. P., BY AND THROUGH *

3

ROBERT SANDS, A NOTICE *

4
5 6

PARTNER, *
*

CONDENSED

TRANSCRIPT

Plaintiffs,
vs.
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,

* * * * * * *

NO.

06-407-T

7 8
9

Defendant.

10
11
12 13

*** * ** * ***** *** * * * *** * * **** ** ** * * * *** * * * * ** *** * *** * * * * ** ** ** * **

ORA DEPOSITION OF VICKIE A. WALKER
* **** * * * ** * *** * * * ** * **** * * ** ** ** *** * **** * * *** *** * * ** ** * ** ** ** **

14
15 16

17 ANSWERS AND DEPOSITION OF VICKIE A. WALKER, produced

18 as a witness at the instance of the Defendant, taken in the
19 above-styled and -numbered cause on the 29th day of August,

20 2007, A.D., beginning at 10:21 a.m. before Andrea Reed, a
21 Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Texas, in
22 the offices of United States Department of Justice, located at

23 717 North Harwood, Suite 400, Dallas, Texas, in accordance with
24 the Federal Rules of Civil Procedure and the agreement

25 hereinafter set forth.

;: GOVERNMENT

i EXHIBIT

i .J
HUNDT REPORTING

I

214-220-1122
APP-A-00026

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 2 of 8

wi tness:

Vickie A. Walker

Page 6 Page 8
i Would that be okay?

3 (Pages 6 to 9)

1 some educational tye services.
2 Q. Okay. What was the nature of

2 A. Sure.
Q. Although we covered this in another deposition, this
4 is a different case. We nee to go through the same drilL.
5 nee to get a litte bit of

the management

3 consulting services?

4 A. Well, we provided management consulting. We did

background information on you.

5 varous -- it depended on the paricular client and what their
6 needs were, but possibly accounting, that kind of thing. Just

Could you give me your name and your address,
7 pleae.

7 varous management tye services.
8 Q. Was that local or national, or how -- what was that
9 that you provided the services?

8 A. Vickie A. Walker.

9 Do you mean my home address?
i a Q. Might as well. I mean, we already have it. We
i i served you there.

lOA. When you say "local or national," do you mean -11 Q. Were the clients -- clients in the Dallas area -- all

i 2 A. i 694 Batts Lane, Prosper, Texas.

12 in the Dallas area, or did you have national clients?
1 3 A. It was prett much in the Dallas area.

i 3 Q. Okay. And could you tell us your educational
i 4 background, pleae.

14 Q. Okay. How about the educational services that you
15 provided, what was that?
i 6 A. What was that?
17 Q. Yeah, what was it?

i 5 A. 1 have a high school education. i got my diploma
i 6 from Cheatham County Central High SchooL.

i 7 Q. And when was that, please?

i 8 A. 1977
i 9 Q. All right. And since that time, what has your

18 A. i wasn't involved in that, so i do not know.
19 Q. Okay. Who was involved?

2 a employment been?
2 i A. From '77 to '80, I worked for a company called

20 A. Varous people at varous times.
21 Q. But who would be able to tell me what the nature of
2 2 those services were?

22 Komman & Associates, Inc. From '80 to '88, I believe, i
23 worked for a company named Whitehall Group, Inc. From '88 to

24 '95, I was employed by the Hertage Organization, Inc. From
25 '95 to 2004, I was employed by the Heritage Organization,

23 24 25

A. Well Mr. Komman, for exainple.

Q. Okay. Would that be Gar Konunan~
A. Yes.

Page 7
1 L.L.C, and -- I'm sorr -- till Augut of 2004. And fi"Om
2 September '04 to curently, I'm employed by Flagstone
3 Mangement, L.L.C

Page 9
1 Q. Are you familiar with the litigation thaI's at issue
2 in this case, the Alpha i suit involving the Sands family?

3 A. No.
4 Q. Are you familiar with the Sands family, that would be

4 Q. Now, were all of those employment -- all those
5 companies related to Gaiy Komman one way or the other?

Robert Sands, Richard Sands and Marilyn Sands from New York?
A. I have heard those names, but depends on what your
7 definition of 8 of

6 A. Yes.
7 Q. Okay. Well, we're going to focus in on the peiiod
8 between 2000 and 2002 because that's what's relevant to this

"familiar with." That's pretty much the extent

my familiarity.
Q. Well, it may not be easy. So what do you know about

9 lawsuit.
10

And durng that time perod, specifically, i 0 those people?

i i again, who were you working for and what were your duties or i i A. Nothing.

i 2 positions that you held with that company~ I i 2 Q. And who would you have hcard the names from?

i 3 A From 2000 to 2004 ~ i 3 A. Probably more accurately, i may have seen them, as 14 Q: 2000, 2002. . I i 4 opposed to when I said I've heard the names. That also 15 A. 2002. I was employed by the Hertage Organization, i 5 includes I would have seen the names. And I've seen the names,
i 6 L.L.C, and I was the secreta and treaurer and mostly in I i 6 but I don't recall that anybody specifically mentioned those

i 7 charge of the accounting department. i 7 names.
18
Q. All right. Now, have you held other positions witli I i 8 Q. Okay. And in what respect -- how would you have seen

i 9 Hertage, L.L.C, offcer positions? i 9 the names? Would it have been on documents, or in what regard

20
21 22
23

A. Offcer positions? 2 a did you see the names? Q. Yes. 2 i A. i believe I've seen the names in various documents. A. I don't think so. 22 Q. Okay. Now, what type of documents?
Q. All right. What was your undertading of

the 23 A. I believe there was a -- an engagement agreement, an

24 Hertage's business durng 200 i and 2002~ What did it do') 24 engagement -- I'm not sure if

thaI's the exact name of it, but

25

A. Provided management consulting services, along with 25 there was an agreement between some of those parties and The

HUNDT REPORTING

214-220-1122

APP-A-00027

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH
Wi tness:

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 3 of 8

Vickie A. Walker

Page 10 Page 12
1 Heritage Organization.

4 (Pages 10 to 13)

1 A. Other than what?
2 Q. Other than what's already been tured over.

2 Q. Okay. And that was basically an engagement from the
3 Sands to retain or to acquire services from Heritage?
4 A. Well, it would be whatever that agreement says.

3 A. Well, we don't-4 Q. Heritage records.
5 A. Well, we don't believe there are any. We've been
6 through all the records, and we've tured other everyhing that

5 Q. Okay. And do you know where that agreement would be

6 today?

7 A. The original agreement, i believe the trustee has

7 is Heritage's records to the trstee.
8 Q. Okay. And as far as "we," again we're talking about
9 that was sometlg that either you did or that was done at your
i 0 direction?

8 that.
9 Q. Okay. And do you know how that came in the trustee's
i a possession?

11 A. It was -- it would have been given to hi through -12 probably though attorneys. We may get into legal issues that

11 A. Yes, i was charge of that.
12 Q. And with regard to the records that were tured over

13 I'm not actully prepared to -- to talk about. But they would
14 have been -- the trustee would have gotten them probably
15 through an attorney rrom me.

i 3 to the trustee, again, those were Heritage records? Those were
i 4 records that Heritage had maintained during the course of its

1 5 business?

16 Q. All right. Now, the trustee -- let's just break it
17 down. The trustee would be the Chapter 1 i bankruptcy trustee
18 for the Heritage Organization, L.L.c.; is that correct?

1 6 A. Say that again.
i 7 Q. The records that you tured over, the Heritage

18 records, those were records that Heritage had maintained during
i 9 the course of its business?

19 A. Yes.
2 a Q. Okay. And the attorney would either be Jeff

2 a A. Well, i guess it depends on your definition of

21 Tilotson or somebody in his offce?
22 A. Probably.

21 "maintained." They would have been records that were in the
2 2 possession of Heritage, and some mayor may not have been
23 created by Heritage or -- but they were in Heritage's
24 possession, and they had something to do with Heritage's
2 5 business.

23 Q. Okay. And by getting these documents rrom you, would
2 4 these have been tured over by you in -- with respect to a -- a
2 5 request or a requirement by the trstee to deliver the Heritage

Page 11
i documents? 1 Q. Okay. And if

Page 13
they had something to do with

2 A. Well, either a request by the trustee or a directive 2 Heritage's business and they were being held by Heritage, is it

3 from the cour or something to that effect, yes. 3 safe to say Heritage was maintaining those for one business

4 Q. All right. And why would it have been you in 4 reason or another?
5 particular that would have been the person providing the 5 A. i suppose.

6 documents to the trustee? Is that something that you did in 6 Q. Okay. You testified earlier that you had seen the
7 your capacity as a secretar/treasurer at Heritage or, again, 7 names of the Sands.

8 why would it have been you? 8 Just to pin it down, have you ever spoken to
9 A. Well, that particular agreement that we were talking I 9 either Robert Sands, Richard Sands or Marilyn Sands?
10 about, that i called the engagement agreement, i would have had lOA. Not that I recall, no.

1 i in -- under my control while i was an employee of Heritage. I 11 Q. How about Andrew Stem?

12 But after the trustee was appointed, then 1 basically had I i 2 A. No.
i 3 access to all of the documents and records. So i was involved I 13 Q. You also testified that you weren't familiar with the
14 in tuing the stuff over to attorneys, yeah, subsequently to I i 4 educational side of Heritage.

15 the trstee. I 15 Do you know whether the documents or the
i 6 Q. Okay. And with regard to the Heritage records, when 16 services that the Sands purchased ¡rom Heritage fell into that i 7 category? i 7 those were tured over by the trustee -- or tured over to the 18 A. i don't know. First of all, i don't know that your i 8 trustee, were you selective in turing them over, or did you
i 9 turn over all of the records that Heritage had at the titnc?
2 a A. Well, he got various records at various times for

19 statement that the Sands purchase services from Heritage is
20 correct. And second of all, i have no knowledge whatsoever

21 various reasons. But at this point, as we sit here today, I

21 about any transaction or anything that occurred between
22 Heritage and the Sands other than if

22 believe that all of the records of Heritage have been tured

there's a document, an

2 3 over to the trustee.

23 engagement agreement, that kind of thing or if there might have
24 bccn invoices or, you know, that kind of

24 Q. All right. Now, if there were any other records out
25 there, where would they be and who would know about them?

transaction.

25 Q. Okay. i think we're going to look at a couple of the

HUNDT REPORTING

214-220-1122

APP-A-00028

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 4 of 8

wi tness:

Vickie A. Walker

Page 18 Page 20
i Q. Okay. LeI's take a look at Exhbit No. 20. This is

6 (Pages 18 to 21)

i A. May '04.
2 Q. May '04. So where were those records between May '04
3 and July 'OS?

2 going to be, I'll represent to you, an opinion letter written

3 by Lewis, Rice & Fingersh, and a transmittal letter requesting
4 the opinion letter. It's prett lengty, which is why 5 identified it to you.

4 A. Different places at different points in time.
5 Q. Okay. Could you tell us what different places and
6 what different points in times, please?

6 But are you familiar with this opinion letter or
7 the request for it?

7 A. From May '04 -- actually probably from April -- from
8 the end of April '04 to -- i canot give you the time frame.

8 A. No.
9 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with Exhibit No.2 i?

9 They went from the offces at Heritage out to a hangar at

10 A. No.
11 Q. Okay. Are you familiar with Exhibit No. 22')

1 a Addison Airport. Some of the records were subsequently taken

11 from there over to a storage unit.

12 A. No.
13 Q. Are you familiar generally with these tye of
14 implementation lists on behalf of Heritage -- that Heritage

12 Q. Okay.
13 A. Subsequently, some of them were taken to a

14 climate-controlled warehouse where they could be sorted

15 would have used for each of its clients?

i 5 through, and that's -- then they were subsequently tued over
i 6 to the trstee.

16 A. i have seen similar documents, but i don't know that
17 I've ever seen anythig like ths for Sands.

17 Q. All right. Now, were all the records at that time -18 well, i guess all of them weren't records -- all of them
i 9 weren't turned over. You said at that point, July 'OS, you
2 a tured over a truck worth of documents.

18 Q. Okay. And in what capacity would you have seen
19 simlar documents?
20 A. Most recently would have been when i went through the
2 i files and documents in order to give them over to the trustee.

2 i Subsequent to that, were there other documents

22 Q. And prior to that?
23 A. Probably not.

22 that were tured over to the trustee?

23 A. Yes. Both prior and subsequent to that day, yes.
24 Q. All right. If

24 Q. Okay. How about Exhibit No. 23, are you familiar
25 with that document~

they were turned over prior to that

25 day, is it safe to say that the documents were gathered from

Page 19
i A. No.
2 Q. Okay. Let's go back to the documents that you turned 3 over to the trustee.
4 Where have those documents been maintained from
5 the time that Heritage went into bankruptcy until you turned
2 turned over to the trstee from those places.

Page 21
i one ofthe places that you say that they were at and then
3 You said that they were at a warehouse. They
4 were at a climate-control place. They were at a hangar.

5 A. Well, i think the trstee was appointed like on a
6 Friday in August. On the following Monday, which was somewhere

6 them over to -- 1 presume it was your -- you turned them over
7 to Mr. Tilotson's office who then turned them over to the

7 around August 15th-ish, the trstee and some people from his

8 trustee?

8 otlce, and i believe their attorney, Lee Moms, was there,
9 came to an executive suite where Heritage was -- that was

9 A. Sometimes. Sometimes. i mean, i -- for example,
i a there was one point where we delivered a semi-trck down to the
i i trustee--

i 0 Heritage's otlce at that point. So they came there. They got
i i the keys to that suite, which had records in it. They got -i 2 they had keys to a storagc unit, which had records in it. So
i 3 they immediately got those things.

12 Q. All right.
i 3 A. -- directly -- that did not go through Mr. Tillotson.

i 4 lt went straight from us to them -- Ii'om me to them.

i 4 Then at some point in time between August '04

15 Q. And in what time frame was that in?
i 6 A. It was June '0 -- no, it was July. When it was

i 5 and July 'OS, they -- there was, i know, one delivery of

i 6 documents that went from a storage unit to the trstee.
i 7 Then -- so, yes, after that, after the initial turnover where i 8 he got the keys to the executive suite and the storage units,
i 9 then, yes, recrds went from various storage units or the

17 actually delivered, it was July '05. i think it was '05.

18 Q. All right. And you say it was a semi-truck, so it
i 9 was quite a large amount of documents?

2 a A. Yes. Documents -- various things. Documents,

20 warehouse or the hangar to the trstee and/or to the trstee
21 through Tillotson.

21 supplies, all kinds of stuff.

22 Q. Were there tape recordings in there as welI
23 A. Could have been.

22 Q. Okay. Now, you said at the claimant-control
23 warehouse you sorted through them. 1 assume at that time -- is

24 Q. Okay. Heritage went into bankruptcy sometime in
25 2004; is that corrcct?

24 it correct, then, at that time some ofthosc rccords that you

25 sorted through werc tured over to the trstee and some of them

HUNDT REPORTING

214-220-1122

APP-A-00029

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 5 of 8

wi tness:

Vickie A. Walker

Page 22 Page 24
1 were not tured over~
1 recordings in Heritage's possession that were turned over to

7 (Pages 22 to 25)

2 A. Yes. 3 Q. Okay. Subsequent to that time, the documents tht
4 had not bee tued over, were they tued over to the trtee?
5 A. If they belonged to Hertage, yes.
6 Q. If

2 the trstee, are you not?
3 A. i know there were a number of

tapes that were turned

4 over to Jeff Tilotson. Beyond that, I don't know what

5 happened to that.

they were related to Hertage, they were tued

6 Q. All right. Up to the time that they were turned over
7 to Mr. Tilotson, do you have any reason to believe that they

7 over?

8 MR. VOLNEY: Objection; form.
9 A. It would depend on how you mea "related to

8 were altered?

9 A. No.
1 a Q. Generally speaking, are you aware that -- i think I
1 1 asked this before, but I'll ask it again -- that Heritage
l2 recorded conversations between its personnel and other people,

10 Hertage."

1 1 Q. (BY MR. HERRING) Well, let's split it up a couple of 12 ways. First, what is your undertading of the cour's
13 directive to Hertage for turg over documents? What's your

13 clients, people on the telephone?
l4 A. I know there were various tape recordings. What
l5 exactly was on them, I have no idea.

14 undertading of what that is?

15 A. That the records and documents that belong to

16 Hertage get tued over to the trtee.
17 Q. And it's your belief

l6 Q. Do you know why they were being recorded?

that you've done so; is that

l7 A. No.
l8 Q. Do you know if

l8 correct?

there was a company policy with regard

19 A. Yes.
20 Q. Okay. Now, with regard to the documents that have
2 1 not been tlned over because you've gone though ths sorting

1 9 to recording conversations?

2 a A. 1 don't know.

2 1 Q. Okay. With regard to the questions that I've asked
22 you and you've told me that you do not know, who would be more

22 process, what was withheld? What tye of documents?

23 A. Document--

23 likely to have the answer to those questions?
2 4 A. it depends on which particular question we're talking

24 MR. CULLINAN: Objection; I think she's
2 5 testified that she produced everying that belonged to

25 about.

Page 23

Page 25

1 Heritage Organization. You're mischaracterizing her ptior 1 Q. Okay. Well, would Mr. Komman pretty much have

2 testimony. 2 know ledge of all of the questions that i asked you with regard
3 MR. HERRIN: Well, again, I don't think i 3 to Hcritage and the Sands?

4 mischarcterized it, but I'll repeat my question. 4 MR. VOLNEY: Objection; form.
5 Q. (BY MR. HERRIN) With regard to the ones that were 5 A. You're going to have to be more specitìc. 6 retained as not belonging to Heritage, what type of documents 6 Q. (BY MR. HERRIN) All right

7 were withheld? 7 A. i mean, isn't this whole thing about Heritage and the
8 A. Documents that didn't belong to Heritage, records and 8 Sands? i mean -9 documents of other parties that did not belong to Heritage. 9 Q. Well, yes, it is actually.

1 a They didn't belong to Heritage. 1 a A. Then you've got to be more specific.
11 Q. All right. Subsequent to Heiitage going into 11 Q. All right. The documents that you looked through

12 bankrptcy and these documents being moved around and then 12 earlier that you said you didn't have any familiarity with, who
13 turned over to the trstee, do you believe any of 14 documents were altered durng that course of

these ! 13 in Heritage would probably be familiar with these documents or

time') I l4 be likely to be familiar?

15 MR. VOLNEY: Objection: foim. 15 A. You're talking about the ones in this book?
16 A. Do I believe that any of these documents were 16 Q. Yes.

18 Between what time~ l8 saw that -19 Q. (BY MR. HERRIN) From the time that the bankrptcy 19 Q. Could you give me some names')
2 a was fied until they were tumed over to the trstee, do you 2 0 A. You know, it would be whoever created the document or

17 altered. 17 A. Various people. i mean, I'm

just going off what

i

21 have any reason to believe that they were altered? 21 whoever got the document or -- so it would be various people, I

22 A. The preexisting documents -- 22 believe, as regard to various items.
23
Q. Yes.

23 Q. All right. With regards -- let's go back through it
24 then. With regards to No. i and 2, which are some
of

24 25

A. -- were altered? No.
Q. You are aware that there were a number

tape

2 5 presentations made to the Sands family n or appear to be

HUNDT REPORTING

214-220-1122

APP-A-00030

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH
Wi tness :

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 6 of 8

Vickie A. Walker

Page 46 Page 48
1 Q. SO iI's just a matter of sometimes they were
2 recorded, and sometimes they weren't and you don't know why?
1 if there were trascripts of recordings,

13 (Pages 46 to 49)

then they should have

2 been par of the clienl's file.

3 A. I don't know -- yes. I mean, some -- I know there

3 Q. How many people would have had access to those fies?
4 A. i don't know.
5 Q. Roughly, between 2001 and April and May 01'2004. And
6 let me back up. Let me make sure I understand.

4 were recordings. I don't know what their criteria was when a
5 recording was required or when it was not or subsequently when
6 the transcript was required or not. 7 Q. Ifa conversation between an employee of 8 Organization and a member of

The Heritage

7 It was April or MayoI' 2004 that those client
8 fies would have been moved to the hangar?

the Sands family had been recorded

9 during 200 i -- and I want to ask this question both with

9 A. Yes.
10 Q. And you were involved in that process?

10 respect to the actual tape and then the purported transcript

11 that was made from the tape. I want to make sure i understand
12 your testimony as to when you took -- would have taken control
13 of those documents for purposes of

11 A. Yes.
12 Q. Did you bave any involvement in maintaining those

producing them to the

13 client fies prior to April or May of2004?

14 bankrptcy trustee. 15 At what point in time would you have taken
16 control of those documents and tapes if you

14 A. No.
15 Q. SO there's gap in the chain of custody of those fies

view that as

16 between 2000 -- again, if these are actually recordings of the
17 Sands family members' conversations with The Heritage

17 something other than a document?

18 A. Well, everyhing -- you say "taken controL" I mean,
19 in April 01'2004, prior to that time, Heritage had offces in
20 an offce building. Okay. So in April of2004, April and May,
2 1 eveiything was removed from those offces, and all the -- all
22 the paper or the majority of 23 kind of

18 Organization, there's a gap between 200 i and between April or

19 May 01'2004 when you took control; is that correct?

20 A. When you say "there's a gap" -21 Q. With respect to your personal knowledge of

what --

the paper and documents and that

22 how these documents were maintained, you don't know how they
23 were maintained before April or May of2004?

thing was taken to a hangar at Addison Airport. And

24 then subsequently, they were moved to various places to eithcr 2 5 make them more -- more secure or more environmentally

24 A. ThaI's correct.
25 Q. And you said you don't know how many people would

Page 47
1 protected.
1 have had access to those tapes.

Page 49
2 But can you just give me a rough estimate -- or

2 Q. When you say to "make them more secure," were they--

3 what do you mean by "more secure"? What was the security like

3 excuse me -- not to the tapes. To the clicnt files.
4 Can you give me a rough estimate as to how many

4 prior to that point in time?
5 A. Well, we had security there. We actually had armed
6 guards there most of the time.

5 people would have had access to the client fies between, leI's
6 say, the end of 200 i or April or MayoI' 2004"

7 Q. By "there," do you mean afìer --

7 A. The number of people? At any given time or -8 9
I

8 A. At the hangar.
9 Q. Okay. So afìer they were moved?

Q. In total. A. In total. i would say -- if i had to guess, i would

10 A. Yes.
11 Q. Okay. And beforehand')
12 A. Before they were moved?

10 say i 5 or less.
11
13

Q. I want to tiy and clarify some testimony you gave 12 regarding alterations. At one point earlier in your testimony,
I thought you testified that you didn't think that any of these

13 Q. Yes, ma'am.

14 A. Well, various records were stored in various places
15 that had various security measures. For the most part, i think

I

14 documents would have been altered. But then later you said
altered when they were not in your possession.

I 15 that you really -- you had no idea whether things had bccn

16 most of the client fies were files -- or files that contained

17 client information were in a locked area that had veiy

18 restricted access. 19 Q. Okay. With respect to the documcnts, again, that are
20 marked as Exhibits 3 through 9, do you know if those specific
21 documents were maintained in the Sands client files?

i 16

17

So with respect to the earlier testimony, did

18 you mean to say that you wouldn't believe that any of these
19 documents have been altered once you took possession of them"

21
!

20 Do you have -- let me ask it a different way. knowing whether these Do you have any way of

22 A. Well, first of all, i don't know that these were ever
2 3 in the Sands client files.

22 documents were altered before you took possession of them') 23 24
A. So prior to April or May 01'2004"

24 Q. That's my question.
25 A. i don't know where these came from. I don't know --

Q. Yes, ma'am.

25

A. No.

HUNDT REPORTING

214-220-1122

APP-A-00031

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 7 of 8

wi tness:

vickie A. Walker

Page 54 Page 56
1 MR. HERR: Give me 2 off

15 (Pages 54 to 57)

just a minute. Let's go

1 Q. Are you familiar with Heritage's Contractor Training

the record.

2 Manual?

3 (Brea was taken at I 1:4 I a.m. to I i:45 a.m.)

3 A. No.
4 Q. I'm going to ask you to tae a look at -- these are
5 excerpts from that manual. The first page there, could you
6 read the second sentence aloud, please.

4 FURTHER EXAMlNA nON
5 BY MR. HERR:
6 Q. Ms. Walker, was it Heritage's practice to hire
7 incompetent peple?
8 A. Not if

7 A. Every conversation you have with a PC, every letter

we could help it.

8 that you send and every meeting that you set will require its

10 employees through a battery of

Q. Didn't Heritage actually pride itself on bringing its tests for qualifications,

9 own green sheet. 10 Q. Okay. And I'm sorr. Read the first sheet talking
1 1 about green sheets.

11 aptitude, that kind of stuff

12 A. Yes.
13 Q. Do you believe that Mr. Komman would direct somebody

12 A. I'm sorr. The-13 Q. The first -14 A. Oh, the first sentence. The green sheet is the form
1 5 used to request tape transcription or a letter or both from
1 6 marketing support.

14 to alter a tape recording that had been made of a meeting that
1 5 he attended?

1 6 A. Of course not.
17 Q. Do you think Mr. Komman would direct Heritage
18 employees to do so?

17 Q. Okay. Does this make it appear that Heritage wanted
18 its conversations recorded and transcribed?

19 A. Of course not.
2 a Q. Okay. Are you familiar with Ralph Canada? Do you

19 A. i can only tell you what this says. i could read it
20 again for you, but, i mean, it just says what it says.

21 know him?

21 Q. All right. Let's go to the second page there talking
22 about tapes and green sheets.
2 3 Read the first sentence, please.
2 4 A. Obviously whenever meetings are set, it is importnt

22 A. Yeah, i know him.

23 Q. Mr. Canada worked for Heritage at one time, did he
2 4 not?
25 A. He

did.

25 to have the conversation transcribed.

Page 55

Page 57

Q. And, in tàct, he was an offcer~ 1 Q. Any reason to think Heritage personnel deviated from 2 A. At one point, he was the president, yes. 2 its policy~

3 Q. When did Mr. Canada leave Heritage') 3 A. i have no reason to think one thing or the other.
4 A. i believe it was July 2002. 4 Q. Okay. If

you'll go to the next page, then, under

5 Q. Is it your understanding that he left on less than 5 Paragraph A. Read that aloud, please.

6 tàvorable circunistances~ 6 A. If you speak to a PC in a state where the
7 A. It's my understading that he left. 7 conversation can be recorded but fail to record the
8 Q. Okay. Are you aware that Mr. Canada and -- has been 8 conversation, paren, or any pait of

the conversation, close

1 a time? 10 Q. Are you familiar with that policy~
11 A. I know that Mr. Canada tiled an arbitrtion 11 A. Not specitically, no.

9 pretty much involved in litigation with Heritage since that 9 paren, you are subject to a $50 tine.

12 immediately n I believe immediately prior to the date that he 12 Q. Are you familiar with a policy in general to fine

13 left. 13 Heritage employees for not recording conversations~

14 Q. Okay. 14 A. i know there were at various times various fines
15 A. And we've n that's been ongoing, I believe. 15 instituted, but specifically what they were for, i don't know.

16 Q. Okay. Do you believe that Mr. Korn would direct a 16 Q. Okay. The ones that you recall, what were they for? 17 Heritage personnel to alter trnscriptions made from recordings 17 A. i don't know. 18 of conversations between Heritage personnel and cIients~ 18 Q. Okay. The last page, could you read that first

19 A. No. 19 sentence, please -- aloud, please.
23 A. Are we done with this? 23 meeting being scheduled.

20 Q. Okay. I want to mark a new exhibit. i think we are 20 A. One thing that is extremely useful to our contractors

21 now up to 55. 21 as they attend a meeting are transcripts of conversations,
22 (Deposition Exhibit No. 55 was marked.) 22 especially those transcripts that ultimately resulted in a
24 Q. We're done. Well, let's -- 24 Q. Okay. Based on what you've seen here, does it appear

25 A. Okay. 25 that it was importnt to Heiitage that it have these meetings
HUNDT REPORTING

214-220-1122

APP-A-00032

Case 1:06-cv-00407-ECH
Wi tness :

Document 75-6

Filed 10/15/2007

Page 8 of 8

vickie A. Walker

Page 58 Page 60
1 transcribed and recorded?

16 (Pages 58 to 61)

1 Delete ten miutes from this tape or change the context?

2 MR. VOLNEY: Objection; form.

2 A. No. No, I don't believe so. No.
3 Q. Okay. And, again, you don't believe tht he would 4 have directed anyone at Hertage to do so on his behalf?

3 A. If -- well, I can only tell you that this says what
4 it says. i don't, again, know where it came from. There

5 obviously are gaps.

5 A. No.
6 MR. HERRN: Okay. Pass the witness.
think thaI's going to make a

6 Q. (BY MR. HERR) You're welcome to look through the
7 manual if you'd like if you

7 FURTHER EXAINATION
8 BY MR. CULLINAN:
9 Q. I just have two quick follow-up points. Going back

8 difference.

9 A. i still don't know where it came from.

10 Q. SO do you think the gaps, that you don't see all the
11 pages, make a difference to your testimony?

1 0 to ths -11 MR. CULLINAN: What is this marked as?

12 A. Well, I have no idea one way or the other. 13 Q. Okay. In that case, let me let you take a look
14 through this and you can decide what --

12 MR. HERRIN: That is 55.

13 Q. (BY MR. CULLINAN) Going back to Exhibit 55. On
14 the -- what's marked here as Page 33, it's got a bunch of
15 number on it -- or APP 2409, the third pargrph begins, The
1 6 best way to avoid?

15 A. I would still not know where it came from --

16 Q. All right. 17 A. -- or -18 Q. Do you have any reaon to believe that this did not
1 9 come from a Heritage Contractor Training Manual?
2 0 A. I have no reason to believe one way or the other.

17 A. Yes.
18 Q. What does the last sentence in that pagrph say? 19 A. Then if you do not have an importt converation,
2 0 you rewind the tape and begi again.

21 Q. Okay. Do you have any reason to believe that this
2 2 was not consistent with Heritage's practices?
23 A. Again, i would have no way of 24 Q. Who would have knowledge of

21 Q. What does that suggest to you, if anytg?
22 A. Well, I don't know if i only read that sentence.
23 Q. Well, might it suggest that it leaves it to the

knowing.

The Heritage Contractor

25 Training Manual and its practices?

2 4 contrctor's discretion to detennine what's an impoi1at 2 5 converation and whether the tape needs to be maintained or it

Page 59
1 2 3 4 5 6 7
8

Page 61
1

A.

Well, I would say that the contractors would know

should be recorded over?

what n what they were expected to do and what their procedures
were.
Q.

2
3

A. Yea. If you go back to the beginning of the
pargrph, what it says to do is record everhing. And then

Would this manual have been prepared by the
I

4

once you're done, if you don't have an importnt converation,
you rewind the tape and begin again. So n
Q. SO what does that mea to you?

contractors?
A.

5
6

1 have no way of knowing that.

,

Q. Okay. Y csterday in a different deposition -- it

7
I

A. So it meas that whoever this is directed to, whoever

wasn't today -- but the suggestion was made that Heritage and

8 9

is doing tliis, yes, gets to detere if there was anytiig significant. And if not, they rewind the tape and go to thc

9

Mr. Komman -- and the suggestion was made by Mr. Canada in a
I i I I I I I I i I I

10 deposition not connected to this proceeding, that Heritage and 11 Mr. Komman would alter Heritage's records. And so
12 specifically, that's why we asked those questions earlier. Let 13 me just one morc time hit on it. 14

10 next thing. 11 Q. Okay. Mr. Hern asked you some questions about
12 alteiing tapes. And I agrec, that's a fairly sinister tenn.
13
Let's asswne that we have a recording that has

Mr. Komman -- do you believe Mr. Komman would
A. Not -- no, just to alter the records. It; for

14 gaps in it. Pei-haps you couldn't hear what was said. The tape 15 isn't clear. Perhaps the tape ran out. Maybe the batteiies

15 alter Heritage's records" 16
17 example, something were incorrect and neeed to be corrected,

16 17

went dead. Any of

those things.

Would it shock you to hea that Mr. Komman or

18 then that's different to me than altering. I mean, when you
19 say "alter," that means -- to me that's something sinister and

20 that you change something that is -- that was already correct. 21
Does that make sense"
the few times we

18 othei' employees at '!be Hertage Organization filled in from 19 their memory what was said~ 20 A. Would it shock me? No. Do I know that it happened" 21 No.
i 22 Q. Okay. Do you know whether it happeiied or not?

22 Q. It does actually. II's one of 23 af,'Tee. So ifyou've

got a record and he's looking at a

23 A. I don't know.
24 Q. Okay. And now let's take the flip side. Let's say
25 that we've got ten hour of tape, nine hour of which is just

24 transcription and there's a word that's wrong or out of place,

25 he might have corrected that. But he wouldn't come in and say,

HUNDT REPORTING

214-220-1122

APP-A-00033