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IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT FOR THE DISTRICT OF COLORADO Criminal Action No. 04-cr-103-REB UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Plaintiff,

NORMAN SCHMIDT, GEORGE ALAN WEED, CHARLES LEWIS, MICHAEL D. SMITH, Defendants. _______________________________________________________________ REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT TRIAL TO JURY - VOLUME VII _______________________________________________________________ Proceedings before the HONORABLE ROBERT E. BLACKBURN, Judge, United States District Court for the District of Colorado, commencing at 8:35 a.m., on the 10th day of April, 2007, in Courtroom A701, Alfred A. Arraj United States Courthouse, 901 19th Street, Denver, Colorado. APPEARANCES WYATT B. ANGELO, MATTHEW KIRSCH, Assistant United States Attorneys, 1225 Seventeenth Street, #700, Denver, Colorado, appearing for the Government. Suzanne M. Claar, Official Reporter 901 19th St. Denver, Colorado, 80294-3589 (303)825-8874 PROCEEDINGS REPORTED BY MECHANICAL STENOGRAPHY TRANSCRIPTION PRODUCED BY COMPUTER

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APPEARANCES (Continued) PETER R. BORNSTEIN, 1600 Broadway, #2350, Denver, Colorado, THOMAS J. HAMMOND, 1544 Race Street, Denver, Colorado, appearing with Defendant Schmidt. THOMAS E. GOODREID, 1801 Broadway, #1100, Denver, Colorado, appearing with Defendant Weed. RONALD GAINOR, 6414 Fairways Drive, Longmont, Colorado, appearing with Defendant Lewis. DECLAN J. O'DONNELL, 777 Fifth Street, Castle Rock, Colorado, RICHARD N. STUCKEY, 2150 West 29th Avenue, #500, Denver, Colorado, appearing with Defendant Smith.

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P R O C E E D I N G S (Proceedings resumed at 8:35 a.m.) THE COURT: Good morning, and thank you. Please be

A matter has arisen that requires our attention initially outside the presence and the hearing of the jury. am advised by the court's courtroom deputy clerk, Mrs. Ginny Kramer, that this morning she was approached by juror No. 7, Mr. Glenn Ward, who briefly expressed a concern about his service on the jury. He apparently represented to Mrs. Kramer I

that service in a ten-week trial would result in the termination and loss of his health insurance. He is with -- he is in the jury deliberation suite, together with the other regular and alternate jurors. If there is potential for his excuse and discharge, then I would prefer to confront and resolve that issue sooner rather than later for the benefit of Mr. Ward, and to preserve the integrity of these important trial proceedings. It would be my proposal that we summon Mr. Ward into court and inquire of him of his circumstances, and ultimately determine, if we can, whether he can serve fairly and impartially in this case. Obviously such a request, if it is as represented to the court, implicates Federal Rules of Criminal Procedure 24(c)(1).

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Any objection to the court inviting juror No. 7, Mr. Glenn Ward, into court, into the jury box, to make further inquiry of him? MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: Not from the government, your Honor. By any one or more of the defendants. No. None by Mr. Weed, your Honor.

MR. HAMMOND: MR. GOODREID: MR. GAINOR: MR. STUCKEY:

Not by Mr. Lewis, your Honor. No objection, your Honor, but I can't

remember the number of the statute anyway which prohibits an employer from discharging an employee from -- because of jury service. And I have this thing in the back of my head that I

think it indicates other employment benefits; that is whoever extends those employment benefits to an employee are prohibited from terminating them along with the employment itself because of jury service. I am wondering if we want to take a look at that first. Either way. attention. employment. But I just wanted to bring that to the court's I might be totally wrong. It might be just

But if it is just employment, you would think it

would include employment benefits too. THE COURT: Well, you raise an important matter. I think it's Title 28.

MR. STUCKEY: THE COURT:

I am sure that it is, but as you know, that

is a -- that's like referring me to Title 18.

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MR. STUCKEY: THE COURT:

I was just trying to narrow it down.

We need to know that, and we need to know

that, I believe, before we begin our inquiry of the jury, of the prospective juror. Because we need to be in a position, it

seems to me, to advise him perhaps as a matter of law whether or not he faces those circumstances, at least from our collective perspective. What I don't want to do is have him -- this is the scenario that I wish to avoid, and that is to have him preoccupied with a concern of a loss of his health insurance with a concomitant impact to him and any dependents, who are also similarly insured. And then have that affect, even for a short while, his concentration on this trial, with its concomitant deleterious effects on all parties, but including the defendants' right to a fair trial. What I am going to do is to declare a recess long enough to research the issue that you raised, Mr. Stuckey, encourage counsel to do the same, to the extent that you can in your present circumstances. I will report the results of the court's research as soon as available, and confer with you further about how best to proceed. And we, of necessity, will be in recess until the

court has accomplished this initial research, and thus we are now in recess.

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(Recess at 8:40 a.m., until 8:50 a.m.) THE COURT: Thank you. Please come forward and be

Indeed we are. MR. STUCKEY:

28 U.S.C. Section 1875, Mr. Stuckey. I stand corrected. We

1675 -- 1875.

found a case under there, your Honor, under whatever they are, 11, which seems to talk about loss of other benefits and whatnot, and that they might be recoverable by an aggrieved employee. But didn't find anything that said, you can't take

his health insurance. Mr. -someone had -- oh, Mr. Angelo had a pretty good

analysis of what he thought had happened vis-a-vis the employer and the carrier and taking money out in advance for his premium and then not having his paycheck and the policy lapsing and whatnot. THE COURT: My guess is the employee will claim lack of

financial ability to pay his portion of the health insurance premiums, and this will have nothing to do with the employer, which is the entity that's brought within the purview of Section 1875. It does not appear to reach health insurance companies, for example. But what I would propose to do is invite Mr. Ward

into court and discuss his circumstances with him, and then assure him that we are on the ball and gathering as much information as we can, and gain from him his continuing commitment consistent with his solemn oath that, for now, he

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will give us his full and undivided attention and concentrate only on the law and evidence presented during the course of this trial and with the benefit of further research and reflection, we will then revisit the issue with him. Any objection to that approach? MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: Not from the government, your Honor. By any one or more of the defendants? No objection.

MR. O'DONNELL: THE COURT:

I also will limit examination of Mr. Ward

to myself because there is no reason to put you in harm's way, even inadvertently from the tenor of or more of the questions that you may wish to propose to him, and we shall proceed on that basis. Madam clerk, if you would invite juror No. 7, Mr. Glenn Ward, into the courtroom. No. 7 in the jury box. MR. STUCKEY: Your Honor, may I bring up a matter that And ask him to take a seat in seat

will just take a second while she is getting him? THE COURT: Well, no because she records the minutes of

the proceedings and that handicaps her from discharging her duties. So thank you but no. MR. STUCKEY: THE COURT: It will come up later.

All rise for this juror.

(Juror in at 8:55 a.m.) THE COURT: Thank you. And again please be seated.

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Juror No. 7, Mr. Glenn Ward, good morning. THE JUROR: BY THE COURT: Q We know who you are but please for the record state your Good morning.

name. A Q Glenn Ward. Mrs. Kramer advised me that prior to commencement of trial

this morning, you had approached her with a concern, a financial concern. Would you please share that now with the court, these

parties, and counsel? A It's somewhat of a financial concern. It's kind of a crazy They are paying

situation. me.

My work is fine with me doing this.

It's no problem.

However, our health insurance is through

the union.

And you have to work twenty hours a week minimum to

keep your health insurance, which normally isn't a problem because I am full-time. as twenty hours work. Q A The union does not. The union does not. And the health insurance. So they will However, they don't consider jury duty

deny me my health insurance.

I am willing to stay if there is

any way to get around it, but I have been trying for three days and they have been doing what they can do, but they said there isn't, but you know I said, I have got to be there. you doing it. I can't see

Plus, I am receiving a paycheck, so I am paying So

my dues and I pay, not a lot, but out of my check insurance.

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that's still going to my health insurance. odd situation.

So it's kind of an

And the only reason -- I would have brought it

up earlier but nobody knew, and the only reason I found out was because one of our ladies said she had a friend a long time ago and the same thing happened to her and she lost her health insurance so we were trying to find out. Q Well, let me ask you this. Are you willing to remain on the

jury until we, and I mean that in the most collective of senses, can resolve this in a way that's either positive for you or negative for you? A As long as I don't lose my health insurance, I have no I will stay. If there is any way around it, I am And I apologize. I did not know it

problem.

perfectly willing to stay. was going to come up. Q A Q No apology necessary. Yeah.

The imposition is unilateral, one-sided, and that's from the

court on you, the good citizen that you are, Mr. Ward. Are you able to identify to yourself, you need not share that yet with us, any other persons or entities with whom you can discuss this matter further or research this matter further? A There is one more person, a friend of mine. He is an

assistant manager.

He said to call this lady in labor relations

today and let her know -- her name.

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The one problem is it's getting to the point where there is still enough weeks in this month left for me to work my time and get my health insurance, but if -- so I would have to find out by today, unless there is something you guys can do. have no problem staying as long as I am sure I don't lose my health insurance. Q Well, would you be willing to continue to exert your best I

efforts even during today to resolve this issue? A Q A Yes. All right. I have been doing that. Like the guy in the back room, you

have been on the phone for three days trying to find out. Q A I think I walked past you during the noon hour. Right, yeah, that's what I was doing when you did that,

yeah. Q All right. And we on this side of the jury box will also be

working on your behalf to determine whether we can resolve this in a way that would satisfy your concerns. A Q Okay. But we need to make absolutely certain of one thing. That

while you are here and while you are in this jury box, that we have your full and undivided attention on the evidence and law being presented during the trial. A As long as I know my health insurance is safe, that's fine.

Because until then I was, you know, doing that, and I have been

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paying attention, so, yeah, it's no problem. Q What I would ask you to do is, if you are able to make what

this for now you believe to be the last contact, if you believe that you have an answer, if you would simply alert Mrs. Kramer, not as to what the answer is or to any substantive communication that you have had with anyone, but you feel that you do know the answer, so that we may again convene on the record in these circumstances and discuss this matter further. willing to do that? A I will. I mean pretty much this was the last option. But my friend, he is an assistant My Will you be

union guy had to check.

manager and he said try her today but, yeah, I will find out from her hopefully today. Q I will also respectfully request and require two additional One, that you do not discuss this matter with any of

things.

your fellow jurors, please. A Q Okay. And to the extent possible and practicable, that you have

discussions or conversations telephonically or otherwise outside the hearing or outside the presence and hearing of your fellow jurors as well. A Q Yes, I will. Then we will ask you to remain on the job fully committed Can you and will you do those two things?

and fully focused on only the evidence and law presented during the trial of this case with the understanding that we will

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revisit this issue before you do in fact lose any health insurance benefits. A Q A Q Okay. Fair enough? Sounds good. Very well. Then I will ask you to rejoin your colleagues,

and we will be underway momentarily. Madam clerk, would you escort Mr. Ward back to the jury deliberation suite. All rise pending the exit of this juror.

(Jury out at 9:00 a.m.) THE COURT: Very well. And please be seated. Counsel,

let me allow you the opportunity for a brief record as a result of the in-court, on-the-record colloquy between the court and juror No. 7, Glenn Ward. government? MR. KIRSCH: No record, your Honor. We would ask, if Any such record or response by the

it's possible, for when the court is finished with this session for a minute or two simply to allow us to call back to our office and shift the focus of the research project that we had tried to initiate based on the new information of the juror. THE COURT: In fact, we will be in recess for fifteen Thank you.

minutes to allow all parties a similar opportunity. MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: of the defendants? Thank you, your Honor.

Any record or response by any one or more

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Hearing or perceiving none, then we shall be in recess until 9:20 a.m., according to the courtroom clock, after which we will -- we shall resume trial proceedings in this case. Until then we are in recess. (Recess at 9:05 a.m., until 9:25 a.m.) THE COURT: Thank you, and please be seated.

Having bid good morning to everyone else, ladies and gentlemen of the jury, good morning. THE JURY: THE COURT: this morning. Good morning. We appreciate your patience and indulgence

I can assure you that while you have been waiting

we have been working. We are prepared to proceed with these trial proceedings, and thus, the government may call its next witness, Mr. Kirsch. MR. KIRSCH: Michael Brudwick. Thank you, your Honor. We intend to call

While Mr. Brudwick is being obtained, we

would also ask to offer pursuant to Rule 902(11) Government Exhibit No. 12022. It should be in the last book, your Honor. 12022. 120? Yes, sir. 12022.

MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: defendants?

Any objection by any one or more of the

Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 12022 admitted in

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evidence, with leave to publish. MR. KIRSCH: Thank you, your Honor. We would like to Starting with

publish at least some portions of that, please. the first page of the document. THE COURT: MR. KIRSCH: Very well.

Leave is granted as requested.

And if we could go ahead and publish page

3 of that document now, please. If we could go ahead and publish page 4 of the document, please. please. Thank you, your Honor. At this time we would call Michael Brudwick. THE COURT: Very well. Thank you. If you will make your way And then briefly page 5 of the document,

Mr. Brudwick, good morning. forward to be sworn by the court.

To accomplish that, if you

will come forward and stand in this open area in front of my bench. oath. There is fine. Thank you. I will administrator the

If you will turn, face me, and raise your right hand to And thank you.

be sworn.

May I have your attention in the courtroom. (Michael Brudwick was sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: witness stand. I do. Please be seated in that

Thank you.

Sir, good morning. Good morning.

THE WITNESS:

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THE COURT: in front of you.

As you testify, please use the microphone And by its

If you will bend that towards you.

peculiar design, it works best with a speaking distance of some six to eight inches please. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: MR. KIRSCH: All right. Mr. Kirsch.

Thank you.

Thank you, your Honor. DIRECT EXAMINATION

BY MR. KIRSCH: Q Good morning, Mr. Brudwick. Could you please spell your

name for the court reporter? A Q A Q A Q A Yes. B-R-U-D-W-I-C-K.

Where do you work, Mr. Brudwick? I work for the Title Company of Iraqis up in Eagle. What do you do for them? I am senior escrow officer. How were you employed in May of 2000? I was senior escrow officer for Aspen Title Corporation,

which was bought for investment here by Iraqis. Q A Q How long have you been an escrow officer? Twenty some years now, 22 years. Can you explain to the jury briefly what an escrow officer

does, please? A We facilitate escrow closings for sale and purchase of real

estate.

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Q

Michael Brudwick - Direct In that capacity are you involved in preparing various

documents that are used in closings of various real estate transactions? A Q Yes. Did you act as the escrow officer in connection with the

sale of several pieces of property known as sort of collectively as the Redstone Castle? A Q A Q A Q Yes, I did. And was that -- when was that? 2000. Okay. Yes. And is the address for that property generally referred to May of 2000? Do you recall?

as 58 Redstone Boulevard? A Q Yes, I believe it is. All right. And in connection with acting as the escrow

officer in that transaction, did you prepare documents that were used in connection with the closing? A Q Yes, I did. Okay. Let me ask you to take a look at what's marked for This is a

identification as Government's Exhibit 150, please.

one-page document, so we will put it up on the screen for you. I will ask first if you are able to read it on the screen? A Q No, I am not. Okay. Let's have you try to take a look at the actual

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Michael Brudwick - Direct document there in that book. It should be behind the tab with a 150. A Q A Q A Q A Q All right. Do you have it there, sir? Yes. Do you recognize that document? Yes. What is it? It's our closing instructions. Were those the closing instructions that were prepared in

connection with this sale of the Redstone Castle that you have described? A Q A Q Yes. And is this a document that you prepared? Yes, it is. Did you prepare it based upon information that you received

around the time that you prepared the document? A Q Yes, I did. And do you know, was this a document that was then -- was

this document created in the ordinary course of Aspen Title's business? A Q Yes, it is. And was it then maintained in the ordinary course of Aspen

Title's business? A Yes.

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Q

Michael Brudwick - Direct Does this appear to you to be a true and accurate copy of

the document, the closing instructions that you prepared in connection with that transaction? A Q Yes, it does. Is it your signature appearing in a couple of places on this

document? A Q Yes, sir. There is also a signature that purports to be of a person

named Leon Harte as the manager? A Q Um-hm. Did you see Mr. Harte actually sign this document? Do you

recall? A I don't recall. I don't recall whether he was in the office

or whether these documents were delivered to us. Q Do you have any procedures in place to ensure that the

person named on the document is in fact the person who signs such a document? A Q Procedures. All right. I am not quite sure what you mean. Is this a document that is presented -- let me Is this a document that

ask you the question a different way.

would be presented to the buyer at the -- in connection with the closing transaction? A Q Yes. And is this a document that the buyer is required to certify

as accurate in order for the closing transaction to occur?

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Michael Brudwick - Direct 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Yes. MR. KIRSCH: At this time the government would offer

Exhibit 150, your Honor. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 150 for identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. KIRSCH: Thank you, your Honor. I would like to Objection by any one or more of the

publish the first page of that document. BY MR. KIRSCH: Q And let's start, Mr. Brudwick, I want to ask you a little

bit about the text that's in sort of the top quarter of that document to begin with. This very -- the very -- the section we are looking at now that says sellers and purchasers, are those the parties that were involved in this transaction? A Q Yes. And was there a person who was acting on behalf of those

corporations listed as the purchasers, Tranquil Options, Peaceful Options, and Serenity Options? A I believe it was Mr. Harte was acting as manager of all

three of those. Q All right. If we can look at the lower portion of that With the signatures. That's the person you are

document now.

referring to, Leon Harte who signed as the manager?

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Michael Brudwick - Direct 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Yes. And if we can scroll up just a little bit there. He signed

there underneath the -- this space for those three options, corporations? A Q Yes. Let me ask you now to take a look at what's marked for Do you recognize

identification as Government's Exhibit 151. that document? A Q A Q Yes, I do. What is it? This is the buyer settlement statement.

Is this a document that you prepared in connection with this

closing? A Q Yes. Was that prepared in the ordinary course of Aspen Title's

business? A Q Yes, it was. Would it then be maintained in the ordinary course of Aspen

Title's business as well? A Q Yes, it would. And is this a document that was also required to be accepted

as correct by the buyer in connection with the transaction? A Yes, it would. MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: I move to admit Government's Exhibit 151. Objection by any one or more of the

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Michael Brudwick - Direct 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 151 for identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. KIRSCH: Thank you, your Honor. I would ask to

publish that document. BY MR. KIRSCH: Q Now, Mr. Brudwick, the settlement date listed here about a

third of the way down, what does that reflect? A Q That was the date of the closing. Okay. And then the purchase price at the top of the next

line, does that accurately reflect the purchase price for this transaction? A Q Yes. Are you aware -- was this -- did this transaction involve

one piece of property or multiple pieces of property? A Q A Um, I believe it was multiple pieces. Okay. One parcel that was sold separately, basically. Separate

parcels. Q And do you recall how those various parcels were split up in

terms of purchasing between the three corporations listed there? A Q No, I don't recall. Do you recall whether it was a situation where one

corporation was buying each of one of the three parcels? A I believe that's correct, yes.

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Q

Michael Brudwick - Direct All right. Let me ask you to take a look now, please, at

what's marked for identification as Government's Exhibit 152. Do you recognize that document? A Q A Yes. What is it? That's what's called our balance sheet or something that's

called a disbursement statement. Q A Q Who prepared that document? I would have prepared that. And would that document -- was it created in the ordinary

course of Aspen Title's business? A Q Yes. Was it then maintained in the ordinary course of Aspen

Title's business? A Q Yes. Does this appear to be a true and accurate copy of the

document that you prepared in connection with this closing? A It does. MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 152 for identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. KIRSCH: Thank you, your Honor. I would ask to I move to admit Government's Exhibit 152. Any objection by any one or more of the

publish the top half of the first page of that document.

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Michael Brudwick - Direct BY MR. KIRSCH: Q Mr. Brudwick, can you explain the receipt section that's

appearing on the screen now, please? A That shows all of the money that came in to escrow for the The first line would be a check that was deposited for

closing. $275,000. Q A

How were you able to determine that was a check? There is a little C under the column that says receipt,

there are numbers 406397, followed by a C, which means it was a check. Q A Q A Okay. And one was the first check that was deposited. I see. And the remainder of those would be all wire transfers

because of the little W and the number. Q All right. So the last four transactions all reflect wire

transfers that came in in connection with this purchase? A Q That's what it would be, yes. Were you familiar at all with the process of the sale of

this property? A Q The process? The lending transaction. Do you know how the property was

sold? A Q No. I wouldn't -- you mean before my closing?

Right.

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A Q

No.

Michael Brudwick - Direct I wouldn't know about that. After this closing occurred, were you involved

All right.

in the preparation of deeds to record the transfer of property? A Q Yes. That would have been part of the closing. Let me ask you to take a look now, please, at

All right.

what's marked for identification as Government's Exhibit 12025. That's going to be in a different binder, Mr. Brudwick. We will ask the clerk to provide it to you in just a moment, please. For the court, your Honor, that's going to be in the final binder. THE COURT: Thank you. 120 -12025, yes, sir. Yes, sir.

THE WITNESS: MR. KIRSCH: THE WITNESS: BY MR. KIRSCH: Q A Q

Do you recognize that document? Yes. That's a deed that was prepared by my office.

And on the first page of the document that you have there,

is there a certification indicating that that is an accurate copy of that document? A Yes. There is attached a certification by the county Clerk

and Recorder. Q A Okay. County clerk that says that's a certified copy.

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Q

Okay.

Michael Brudwick - Direct Can I ask you to go ahead while you are there and

also take a look at Exhibits 12026 and 12027. A Q A Q A Q A Q A Um-hm. Do you recognize those documents? Yes. What are they? Also deeds that we prepared. That I prepared.

In connection with this closing? Yes. And do they also contain similar certifications? Yes. MR. KIRSCH: Your Honor, the government would move to

admit Government's Exhibit 12025 through 12027 at this time. THE COURT: defendants? MR. BORNSTEIN: May I voir dire on at least one of Because he only identified the Any objection by any one or more of the

these exhibits, your Honor?

front page, and I don't understand what the fourth page is. THE COURT: purpose. EXAMINATION BY MR. BORNSTEIN: Q Would you look at Exhibit 12025. It consists of how many Very well. You may for that limited

pages, sir? A Can I take it out of this binder?

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Michael Brudwick - Direct 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Q A Q A Q A Sure. It's a four-page document. And what is the fourth page? The fourth page is a list of exceptions to the title. And is that part of the deed? Yes. It's traditional in Colorado that the title exceptions

be shown on warranty deeds. Q All right. And would you look at 12026. The front page is

a deed. A Q A Yes.

Did you identify that?

What are pages 4 and 5? Page 4 appears to be a continuation of the legal And 5 is the exceptions to title.

description. Q A

Well, is page 5 a real property transfer declaration? No. On this, no. MR. BORNSTEIN: THE COURT: Your Honor, the document --

Use the Bates stamps because the witness,

in the view of the court, is not tracking with you page for page. He has identified 3 and 4 instead of 4 and 5. If you give him a Bates stamp number, you will more directly focus and quickly focus his attention to the benefit of us all. MR. KIRSCH: Your Honor, I do need the court to be made

aware I am not certain Mr. Brudwick's copies have the stamps because he does have original certified copies.

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Michael Brudwick - Direct THE COURT: All right. MR. BORNSTEIN: BY MR. BORNSTEIN: Q A What is that page, sir? That is Exhibit B, exception to title that's attached to So this document Go to the last page of 12026, please.

the -- and that is not what's on the screen. is not what's on the monitor here. Q Okay.

That is why we are not tracking with each other

because I am working off of the document that I was given from the government, and apparently it differs from the one that you have in the book. So you have --

Could I look at the one that's in the book, your Honor? THE COURT: You may, thank you. If you will retrieve

that from the witness and display that to all counsel for the defendants, please. MR. KIRSCH: a duplication error. four pages. Your Honor, I apologize. It appears to be

The version I have in this book only has

We may have scanned an additional page. The concern focuses on the real property

THE COURT:

transfer declarations. MR. BORNSTEIN: That's correct, your Honor, and So that that explains -- I

apparently that's not part of 12026. will show it to other counsel. THE COURT: MR. KIRSCH: Thank you.

Just so the record is clear, your Honor,

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Michael Brudwick - Direct we do intend to be offering the exhibit in the format that counsel are now reviewing. THE COURT: the witness, please. MR. BORNSTEIN: Your Honor, as long as Exhibit 12026 is And Mrs. Kramer, if you will return that to

a four-page document rather than a five-page document, we have no objection. THE COURT: You have reviewed it. Is there any doubt

about the number of pages that comprise the exhibit? MR. BORNSTEIN: THE COURT: defendants? MR. O'DONNELL: THE COURT: No objections. No. Objections by any of the other

Thank you.

Hearing none, Government's Exhibits 12025,

12026, and 12027 for identification are admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. KIRSCH: THE COURT: BY MR. KIRSCH: Q Mr. Brudwick, speaking of these three warranty deeds you Thank you, your Honor. You are welcome.

have just identified as a group, do those deeds evidence the transfer of the Redstone Castle properties to the Tranquil Options, Serenity Options, and Peaceful Options, LLC? A Yes, they do. MR. KIRSCH: Those are all the questions I have for

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Michael Brudwick - Direct Mr. Brudwick, your Honor. THE COURT: Thank you.

Cross-examination of this witness by Mr. Smith through Mr. Stuckey or O'Donnell? MR. O'DONNELL: THE COURT: by Mr. Gainor? MR. GAINOR: THE COURT: Mr. Goodreid? MR. GOODREID: THE COURT: by Mr. Bornstein? MR. BORNSTEIN: THE COURT: Not many, but a few. I have no questions, your Honor. No questions, your Honor. Cross-examination on behalf of Mr. Weed, by We have no questions of this witness.

Cross-examination on behalf of Mr. Lewis,

Cross-examination on behalf of Mr. Schmidt

Very well. CROSS-EXAMINATION

BY MR. BORNSTEIN: Q A Q Good morning, Mr. Brudwick. Good morning. Mr. Brudwick, um, on the buyer's end of the transaction, you

prepared the papers for Mr. Leon Harte to sign as a manager; is that right? A Q Correct. And is it not the policy and procedure of your title company

that when the purchaser or the seller is a LLC or a limited

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Michael Brudwick - Cross liability company, that the title company assure itself as to who has signing power on behalf of the company? A Q Yes. And in the case of an LLC, which is a limited liability

company, that doesn't have a board of directors, does it? A Q A Q A Q No. It has managers? Correct. Or members? Correct. And in order to find out who has signing authority, you

normally need to read an operating agreement; is that right? A Q Correct. Yes, that's correct.

And normally title companies require that the operating

agreement be provided to the title company so that the title officer can assure himself or herself as to who has management authority in that organization, correct? A Q Correct. And in this case it was Mr. Leon Harte who had management

authority? A Q Apparently so, yes. All right. Did Mr. Norman Schmidt have anything to do with

the closing of the purchase of the Redstone castles? A I don't recall Mr. Schmidt -- Mr. Schmidt's name coming up

at all.

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Q

Right.

Michael Brudwick - Cross And you don't recall Mr. Schmidt's name being in the

operating agreement, either, do you? A I don't even know if I saw the operating agreement I don't know.

personally. Q

Who would have seen the operating agreement on behalf of

your title company? A It was probably one of the title officers. It might have

been supplied to them.

But I don't recall -- I wouldn't recall

who the managers were or what that paperwork said seven years ago. Q All right. But in any event, the name Norman Schmidt never

came up and doesn't come up on your mind as having anything to do with this transaction from your perspective? A Q A Q No. That's a correct statement? Yes, sir. All right. MR. BORNSTEIN: THE COURT: That's all the questions I have.

Very well.

Redirect examination for the government, Mr. Kirsch. MR. KIRSCH: you. THE COURT: May this witness be excused and released No other questions, your Honor. Thank

from subpoena, if any, by the government. MR. KIRSCH: Yes, sir.

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Michael Brudwick - Cross THE COURT: Any objection by any one or more of the defendants? Hearing none, sir, you are now excused and released from subpoena, if any, with our thanks. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Thank you.

You are welcome.

(The witness was excused.) THE COURT: next witness. MR. KIRSCH: Your Honor, at this time the government Very well. The government may call its

would offer again pursuant to Rule 902(11) Government's Exhibit 12002 through 12004. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibits 12002, 12003, and 12004 for identification are admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. KIRSCH: Thank you, your Honor. I would ask to Any objection by any one or more of the

publish, beginning with Exhibit 12002, please. THE COURT: MR. KIRSCH: document. Thank you. Starting with the first page of that

If we can display the text a little larger.

If we could display the second page of that document,

If we could now go ahead and publish the first page of

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Michael Brudwick - Cross Government's Exhibit No. 12003. If we could go to the second page of that document, please. And then finally, if we could publish the first page of Government's Exhibit 12004, please. And then if we could

publish the second page of that document, please. Thank you, your Honor. leave to call its next witness. THE COURT: Leave is granted as requested. The The government would now ask

government may now call its next witness. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time we would call

Cynthia Lange to the stand. THE COURT: Thank you.

Ms. Lange, if you would please come forward to be sworn by the court. To accomplish that, if you will come stand in Right there is

this open area in front of my bench, please. fine. Thank you.

If you will face me and raise your right hand

to be sworn.

Thank you.

May I have your attention in the courtroom. (Cynthia Lange was sworn.) THE WITNESS: THE COURT: witness stand. And ma'am, good morning. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: Good morning. I will. Please be seated in that

Thank you.

As you testify, please use the microphone

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Michael Brudwick - Cross in front of you. And if you will please use a speaking distance of six to eight inches, please. Mr. Angelo. MR. ANGELO: THE COURT: Thank you, your Honor. You are welcome. DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. ANGELO: Q A Could I ask you to spell your first and last names? Cynthia Lange. C-Y-N-T-H-I-A, Lange, L-A-N-G-E, and I am Thank you.

also known as Cyd, which is spelled C-Y-D. Q Ms. Lange, can you tell us, please, in what city and state

you currently reside. A Q Parker, Colorado. Let's back up then a little bit. And can you tell us,

please, where you were residing in the year 2000? A Q A Q Redstone, Colorado. And what were you doing in Redstone Colorado at that time? I was the general manager of the Redstone Castle. And can you describe those properties to us a little bit, if

you would, please. A This was the property that was -- a mansion that was built It was finished in about 1902,

over the turn of the century.

and it was said that it cost close to $2 million to build that property at the turn of the century, and at the time it was approximately 150 acres, and I think 75 acres was the castle

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Cynthia Lange - Direct proper, and then additional acreage included the carriage house and that area over there. Q And can you tell us, please, what your duties as general

manager entailed? A I ran it as a bed and breakfast at times. There were tours

that went through the mansion.

I did special events, dinners,

weddings, things of that nature. Q A Q And when did you start doing that? In April of 1986. And when did you terminate your association with those

properties? A Q October 1st of 2000. Ms. Lange, did you have occasion to attend an auction with

respect to those properties in the year of 2000? A Q A Yes, I did. And where was that auction held? That was in Aspen, and I can't remember the exact building

right now, but it was in Aspen. Q And what can you tell us about that auction? What you

recall about it? A That was a -- what was called a Dutch auction, and I had

never been to one before but I understand that they start at a high figure and then start going down if no one purchases it at the high figure. Q And was in fact the castle purchased at that auction on that

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Cynthia Lange - Direct 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A date? A Q Yes, it was. And how long were the properties actually at auction that

day? A Q A Q A About six seconds. And do you remember what they sold for? $6 million. And do you remember who the bidder was? They were under the name of Tranquil Options, and it was

Leon and Debbie Harte. Q And had you met the Hartes prior to the time of that

auction? A They had come to the castle property to look at it prior to

the auction, yes. Q And following the sale of the property at that auction, did

you continue with your employment at that location? A Q us. A Q Yes. Mr. Harte did ask me to stay on. You have already told

And how long did that -- I am sorry.

That employment continued through October of 2000? Exactly. Now, I would like you to take a look at a series of exhibits

if you would, please, starting with Exhibit 160, which will appear before you as madam clerk provides you a copy. Do you recognize what that is? Yes, sir, I do. That is the Redstone Castle.

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Cynthia Lange - Direct MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time we would move for the admission of Government's Exhibit 160. THE COURT: defendants? MR. O'DONNELL: THE COURT: No objection. Any objection by any one or more of the

Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 160 for

identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: Thank you, your Honor. We would ask that

it be published at this time. BY MR. ANGELO: Q Thank you. Ms. Lange, I am now going to ask you to take a

look at Government's Exhibit No. 161, which should be in that book before you, if it's not on your screen. A Okay. That is the carriage house, which is very close to

the castle itself. Q Was that one of the properties that was auctioned or at the

time that you were at the auction you described? A Yes. Yes, sir, it was. MR. ANGELO: Move for the admission of Government's

Exhibit No. 161, your Honor. THE COURT: defendants? MR. O'DONNELL: THE COURT: No, Judge. Any objection by any one or more of the

Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 161 for

identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish.

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Cynthia Lange - Direct MR. ANGELO: Thank you, your Honor. it be published at this time. Thank you. BY MR. ANGELO: Q

We would ask that

Ms. Lange, would you now take a look at Government's Exhibit Do you recognize what that is?

No. 162, please. A Yes, I do.

That was the original kennels, the dog kennels

for Mr. Osgood was the original owner of the mansion, and he built kennels for the dogs. Q A Again, part of the castle properties? Yes, sir. MR. ANGELO: 162 at this time. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 162 for identification, admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: THE COURT: BY MR. ANGELO: Q If you would now look at Government's Exhibit No. 163. Do Thank you, your Honor. And you are welcome, counsel. Any objection by any one or more of the Your Honor, we move for the admission of

you recognize what that is? A Yes, sir. That is the interior horse arena. Exercise

horses in there. Q And is that associated with the property?

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Cynthia Lange - Direct 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 A Q Yes, sir. Was that a part of the property sold at the auction you have

described? A Yes, sir. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time we move for the

admission of Government's Exhibit No. 163. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 163 for identification dead, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: time, your Honor. BY MR. ANGELO: Q Ms. Lange, would you now look at Government's Exhibit No. Do you recognize that? That was the horse stables at the time. At the We would ask that it be published at this Any objection by any one or more of the

164. A

Yes, sir.

time that I lived there. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time I move for the

admission of Government's Exhibit No. 164. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 164 for identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: THE COURT: Thank you, your Honor. You are welcome. Any objection by any one or more of the

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165. A Q

That is the equipment barn. And again, is that part of the Redstone Castle properties

that were sold at auction? A Yes, sir. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time we move for the

admission of Government's Exhibit No. 165. THE COURT: defendants? MR. O'DONNELL: THE COURT: No objection. Any objection by any one or more of the

Hearing none, Government's Exhibit No. 165

admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: THE COURT: BY MR. ANGELO: Q Ms. Lange, after the auction that you have described, was Thank you, your Honor. You are welcome.

occupancy of the castle actually taken by any of the parties who had purchased it? A Q Yes. Leon and Debbie Harte stayed on the property.

And during the course of your continued employment there,

can you describe who visited the Hartes at that property? A Um, I don't know if I know everybody by name definitely

because that was my place of employment, and I looked at it as

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Cynthia Lange - Direct Mr. Harte and his wife as new owners.

So that was my job to

make sure that the people who visited there were taken care of, and so I really didn't socialize with those people at all. remember a couple of people. Q A And who do you remember? Norm Schmidt would visit there occasionally, and the Hartes' I do

family would come in, and I did meet some of -- I think one of Norm's sons I believe worked and helped us there for a little bit. Q A Did you also meet a person by the name of Peter Moss? Briefly. I remember the name. But there again, I wasn't

socializing with these people, so they would come and go without really me paying much attention. Q Did you have any discussions with either Mr. Harte or

Mr. Schmidt about their interest in the castle or why they had purchased the castle? MR. BORNSTEIN: I will object, your Honor, unless it's

broken up individually and not as a collective question. THE COURT: The form of the question is objectionable.

Response by the government. MR. ANGELO: Honor. Actually, I had intended to do that, your

I will go ahead and do that at this time. THE COURT: The objection for now is sustained.

Your next question, Mr. Angelo. BY MR. ANGELO:

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Q

Cynthia Lange - Direct Did you have any discussions with Mr. Harte about his plans

for the castle? A Some. He had asked for my input, and I had recommended that

we do as much as we could with the castle to kind of bring it back to life. And so we were going to do tours and some special

events, and not really dinners or bed and breakfast at the time. We had talked about doing some weddings and that type of thing. Q Did you have any discussions with Mr. Harte about

Mr. Schmidt's relationship or interest in the castle? A Leon told me that Norm was -MR. BORNSTEIN: I am going to interpose our objection

to hearsay to protect the record. THE COURT: Duly noted but respectfully overruled.

Ma'am, you may complete your answer to the last question if you recall where you were. his last question for your benefit. THE WITNESS: THE COURT: BY MR. ANGELO: Q Did Mr. Harte ever discuss with you or tell you what I can't really state where I was, no. Counsel. Or counsel may reiterate

Very well.

Mr. Schmidt's interest was in the castle? A Q A Q I was told that he was a partner of Leon's. Did you ever have similar discussions with Mr. Schmidt? Yes. Can you describe those for us, please.

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A Q

Cynthia Lange - Direct Mr. Schmidt also told me that he was Leon's partner. And in your discussions with Mr. Harte, did he tell you what

in fact business that partnership was in? A He told me that he was part of an investment group, and that

Tranquil Options was just one part of the investment group. Q And what did you understand that investment group to be

doing besides investing in the castle properties from Mr. Harte? A He told me it was quite widespread as far as international

investments investing in other countries who had damages from hurricanes and different disasters like that. Q Did Mr. Harte ever describe to you what Mr. Moss's

relationship was to that partnership? A Q A Not what the relationship was, no. Did he describe what his relationship was to Mr. Moss? Not really. They -- Mr. Harte told me that there were

several people who were involved in the investment group, but he never did point those out to me as they visited the castle. Q Did you have discussions with Mr. Moss about what his

association was with the partnership that you have referred to? A I was told by a couple of different individuals, and I

cannot remember their names right now, I can't remember whether Mr. Moss was one of them or not, but they -Q That's all right. You don't have to. I think the -- we

want to make sure that you answer the specific question concerning what Mr. Moss told you, if you can recall.

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A Q

Cynthia Lange - Direct No, nothing. Now, can you tell us, please, did Mr. Harte ever discuss

with you a possible investment by you in that investment group? A Yes, he did. He thought that it would be to my advantage to

invest in his group. Q And when did that occur in relationship to when the castle

properties were auctioned? A Q After he had been there for a month, perhaps six weeks. During the course of those discussions, did he ever use the

name Reserve Foundation Trust? A Q After a time, yes. Did you ever have discussions with Mr. Schmidt about the

advisability of investing in that investment group? A Yes. As a matter of fact, he told me he thought it was a That I would probably never have to work again if I

good idea.

invested in it. Q And did you get any particulars about how that investment

would work? A Q A At the time I sat down with Leon and discussed it. Okay. And can you tell us, please, what he told you.

He told me, first of all, that the minimum investment was a He said

hundred thousand dollars, and all I had was $50,000.

that he would -- since I was a good friend, he would make a deal for me and allow me to invest $50,000. Q And what did you understand from Mr. Harte how your money

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Cynthia Lange - Direct would be invested? A Mr. Harte explained to me that it was money that was loaned

to countries that were in need of help from disasters, and that they would loan the money and then pay it back with interest, and that was where the investments were going as they would loan people money in one aspect or another, and then they would be paid back with interest. Q And what did Mr. Harte tell you about the return or

potential returns in that investment? A He said that there is a good possibility of a 50 percent

return. Q A And do you know if that was per month or per year? He basically said that the investment would start making But he said

money and gathering interest from the first month.

that there was a greater potential for me to make money if I waited for three months. And then month by month I would be

receiving interest payments after 90 days. Q Did you discuss with Mr. Harte the risk, or lack thereof, of

the investment in this investment group? A Yes. I am not a seasoned investor, and I felt that if I

could be guaranteed that I really would not be losing any money, that I would be more than -- I would be willing to invest. he assured me that the money was insured by the Lloyd's of London, and that there would be no way that I could ever lose that $50,000, and that I could ask for it back at any time, if I And

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Cynthia Lange - Direct was insecure or felt not sure about the investment. Q A Q Did you make a decision to invest at that time? Yes, I did. I am going to ask if you look at the notebook that you have And please

in front of you at Government's Exhibit No. 170. feel free to remove that from the sleeve. A Q There is not a 170 in there. Oh, I am sorry. We need a second notebook.

Thank you,

ma'am. A Q

Have you found the exhibit?

Yes, sir. Go ahead and remove it from the sleeve. It's a multi-page

document, if you would, please.

Would you please take a look at

the pages that comprise Government's Exhibit No. 170 to yourself for a second. A Q A Q A Okay. Do you recognize the document? Yes, I do. What is it? It's the Corporate and Private Placement Agreement or the

CPPA that I went over with Leon and signed with Leon Harte. Q A Q And did you sign that in his presence? Yes, I did. And with respect to the initials and signature on the fourth

page of five, concerning the trust rep? A Yes.

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Q A Q A Q

Cynthia Lange - Direct Were you present at the time that those lines were executed? Yes, sir. And who executed those lines? Myself and Leon Harte. Okay. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time we would move for

the admission of Government's Exhibit No. 170. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 170 for identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: THE COURT: MR. ANGELO: Thank you, your Honor. You are welcome. We would ask that be done at this time. Any objection by any one or more of the

With respect to the first page, if we could focus on that. BY MR. ANGELO: Q Ms. Lange, if you would, please, with me take a look at

paragraph 1B of the first page that says party A. A Q Yes, sir. Take a look at the last sentence of that paragraph, if you

would, please, for a second to yourself. A Q Yes, sir. Was the content of that paragraph consistent with what you

had discussed with Mr. Harte about how your money would be used?

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A Q

Yes. Okay.

Cynthia Lange - Direct He made it -- yes. Let's take a look at paragraph 1E. Take a look at

that for a second and read it to yourself. A Q I see that. Did you ever have any discussions with Mr. Harte about why

the bank was not to be informed of how the funds were being used? A Yes. He said that it was just a confidential situation

because there was potential to make quite a bit of money, and that was not acceptable in a lot of banking areas. Q Okay. Let's take a look at the second page, if you would Do you see the second sentence there that

please, paragraph 3.

starts, the funds are to be good, clean, cleared, and lawfully earned funds? A Q Yes, sir. Did you ever have any discussions about what the purpose of

that language was for? A Q No. Now, let's take a look at the next sentence. Starts, upon

receipt of the funds. A Q Yes, sir. Did you in fact receive a binder of insurance in your name

after your investment? A Q No, sir. Let's take a look, then, at page 3 of that exhibit.

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Paragraph 8B.

Cynthia Lange - Direct Did you have any discussions with Mr. Harte as to

why there was -- information was to be shared on a need-to-know basis only? A Q Again, he encouraged me to keep it to myself. Was there any further explanation or did you accept that at

face value? A Q I accepted that at face value. Okay. Let's take a look at the fifth page of that exhibit, Look at the section which is denominated

if you would please. security. A Q Yes.

Take a moment to read that paragraph to yourself.

With

respect to the initial representation concerning the insurer, and in that first sentence, is that consistent with what Mr. Harte had told you? A Q A Q A Q A Q It's consistent with what he told me. Now, if you look now at Government's Exhibit No. 171. Yes, sir. Do you recognize that document? Yes, I do. And how do you recognize it? It's my handwriting. And was this document completed in association with your

investment in the Reserve Foundation? A Yes, sir.

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Q

Cynthia Lange - Direct And was it given to Mr. Harte at the time that you executed

the Cooperative Private Placement Agreement? A Q be? A Q A Q A Q The information in my -- for my bank account. And what was the importance of that? To get the $50,000 transfer or taken out of my bank account. For the purposes of the investment? Yes, sir. And with respect to the information contained in this Yes, it was. And what did you understand the purpose of this document to

document, did you also have information concerning where funds could be sent? A Q Yes, sir. A statement of earnings. And was this provided to Mr. Harte

at the time of the signing of the other document? A Yes, sir. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, we move for the admission of

Government's Exhibit No. 171 at this time. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 171 for identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: Thank you, your Honor. We would ask that Any objection by any one or more of the

the first page be published at this time.

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Cynthia Lange - Direct THE COURT: You are welcome, and it may. BY MR. ANGELO: Q Ms. Lange, if you take a look at that first paragraph Did you know, or was it

underneath your name and address.

explained to you by Mr. Harte, what the due diligence convention was? A Q A Not exactly. Okay. Why don't you enlighten us about what was discussed?

There again I think that he focused on things such as the

prevention of money laundering and that type of thing, to assure me that everything was aboveboard. Q Okay. And after signing the Cooperative Private Placement

Agreement, how was it your intention to actually channel the funds to the Reserve Foundation? Were you going to be writing a

check or initiating a transfer in some other methodology? A I was going to transfer the funds to an account number that

Leon had given to me. Q A Q A Q A Q A Was that by wire transfer or check? Wire transfer. From your bank? Yes, sir. And where was your bank? At the time it was in Carbondale. And the name of the bank was what? Alpine Bank.

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Q A Q

Cynthia Lange - Direct Did you also have a US Bank account at one time? I did. Let's take a look at Government's Exhibit No. 172. Do you

recognize that document? A Q A Yes, sir. And what do you recognize it to be? That was the information that Leon gave me as to where to

transfer the funds. Q And was that given to you at the time that you signed the

Cooperative Private Placement Agreement? A Yes, sir. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time we move for the

admission of Government's Exhibit No. 172. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit No. 172 for identification is admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: time, your Honor. THE COURT: BY MR. ANGELO: Q Ms. Lange, when you did make your investment, did you effect And it may. We would ask that that be done at this Any objection by any one or more of the

a wire transfer to the coordinates reflected on Government's Exhibit No. 172? A Yes, I did.

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Q A Q

Cynthia Lange - Direct And was that in the amount of $50,000? Yes, sir. If you would look now at Government's Exhibit No. 173 for a Do you recognize that document?

second. A Q A

Yes, I do. And what do you recognize it to be? It is the copy of the transfer of $50,000 from my account to

the Reserve Foundation, LLC, account in Greeley. Q And does that accurately reflect the date and the amount of

that transfer as well as the account from which it was transferred? A Q Yes, it does. And does it accurately memorialize your directions to

US Bank for the purposes of that transfer? A Yes, sir. MR. ANGELO: Your Honor, at this time we move for the

admission of Government's Exhibit No. 173. THE COURT: defendants? Hearing none, Government's Exhibit 173 for identification admitted in evidence, with leave to publish. MR. ANGELO: your Honor. BY MR. ANGELO: Q Now, Ms. Lange, after you had made your investment on August We would ask that be done at this time, Any objection by any one or more of the

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Cynthia Lange - Direct the 1st of 2000, did you in fact receive profits and/or returns on the $50,000 that you had invested? A Q A Q A No, sir. And did you make inquiry about that? Yes, sir. Of whom? I called, um -- well, as I said before, I was told it would

be 90 days from my initial date of investment that I would see any return whatsoever, and since I worked up until October 1st at the castle, I moved down to Denver and expected to hear from them and did not. Q And did you provide Mr. Harte with a new address for you and

phone contact information? A Q Yes, indeed, I did. Did you also provide him with e-mail information so th