Free Motion for Summary Judgment - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM

Document 120-6

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 1 of 5

EXHIBIT D

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Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM

Document 120-6

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 2 of 5

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In The Matter Of:
Alfred Aloisi, et at., v.

The United States
i

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Kathleen Granillo
1

Vol. 1, October 2, 1997

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Bean & Associates, Inc.
Professional Court Reporting Service

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500 Marquette, N~ Suite 280, Albuquerque, NM 87102
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119 East Marcy, Suite 110, Santa Fe, New Mexièo 87501
(800) 669-9492 or (505) 843-9494

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Orginal File grlOO297.vl, 90 Pages Mln.U&ript( File ID: 0792355618

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Word Index included with this Mi-U-Scrph
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Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
III IN THE UNIT STATES COURT OF FEDER CLAIMS

Document 120-6
Page 1

Filed 02/06/2008 yui. i, OConer 5 1997 Page 3 of 2,
Page 2

12 No. 95-SSO
(F July 31, 1997)
131

ill APPEACES
I2 For the PlaJnllls:

I5 PIs,
I6 vs.

141 ALED ALOISI, et at,

P) FREEDMA, LEVY, KROLL & SIMONDS
Atornys at Law

!4J 1050 Co Avenue. Nort
WashIngon. D.C. 20
I5 BY: MR. LAWRENCE G. MCBRIDE

(7 THE UNIT STATES,

181 Defen.
19
lID)

I6 For lhe Defend:
(7 MS. SUSA V. COK

(III
(121

CEPrrlO OF KATHLE GRAILLO Ocobr 2, 1997
9:30 a.m.

Atorn at Law

(8 Unied Stes Dent of Justic
Enorvm & Natura Resourc DlIlslon
(9 601 Pennllan Avenue, Norasl, Room 837

50 Gold Avenu, SoUlhwt
(13)

A.uquerqe, New Mexic 87102

(1")

Washingon, D.C. 200
lID)

(IS) PURSUA TO THE FEER RULES OF CMl PROCEDURE,1h

ctll wa:
lIS¡
(17) TAK BY: MR. LAWRENE G. MCBRIDE ATTOREY FOR THE PLANTIFFS
118)
111)

Alo Prent: Mr. Alred Alisi

(121 INDEX PAGE
~13) KATHLEEN GRAilO

(19) REPRTE BY: MeDsa Coa, RPR, NM CCR t2

I2
(21)

Be & Astes. Inc
Presiona Court Reprtin Servic
50 Marquette, Northwest, Su~e 280

II") examination by Mr. McBri 3 (IS) REPORTR'S CERIFICATE 85
116) WrrNESS SIGNATUREiRRECT/ON PAGE
117)

87

I2 (2
12")

Aberqu, New Mexic 87102

(18) (19)

539-11 MEl

(2
(21)

l2

I2 (2
(24)

(25)

(1) KATHLEEN GRANILLO,
I2 afer havig be fist duy swrn unde oath wa

Page 3

I5 BY MR. MCBRIDE:
IS¡ Q: Ms. Grao, could you state and spel your nae (7 for the record, plea? (8) A: Kattecn K-A-T-H-L-E-E-N; Grao,
(9 G-R-A-N-I-L-L-o.

(4) EXINATION

(3 questioned and testied as foUows:

(10) Q: And dug much of the perod we're going to be
(11) tag abut, wh is 1989 though '94, your lat Dae wa

(12) Mie?
113) A: Uh.huh.
(14) Q: Could you spel tht, plea for the record?
(IS) A: M.I-L-N~E.

116) Q: By way of opcng.l'm goin to ask you a seies of
~17) questions tht have to do With the proedes and policies of (181 the Fish and W"ildle Sec: and the Foret Sece.And whåå 119) I ask you thc: questions, I'm askig for your undetadig,

I2 what you thought your responsibillies wcrorwhtyou thought (21) the duties or resonsibilti of other omc: of the
I2 agencies were.

I'm not askig you for lega condusions or to
mc:t orwht you thought

(2 bind the Forest Sece to a potion on a nltt, but wht you
(24) thought rues

(2 or who you thought wa J'nsib1c for a ty of acon, tht

you we suppose to do

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Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM

Document 120-6
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Filed 02/06/2008

VOl. I, October Page 4 of 5 2, 1997
Page 26

(I) ha indidu doents on each project.
12 Q: I'm aski if in

Jul of 199 you read thugh th (3) and leaed what the v:ous projects wer indudi exos 1") yourse to the fa tht there wa a Lity Mie projec is de her.
"1
¡

11) MS. COOK: I mow, but we just have to. TIts

12 the rues. We ca't have you tw ha convesations, SO you
I3 just nee to confe your an to Mr. McBride.

(4) Q: (By Mr. McBride) Do you reem Jim Rock?
I5 A: Yes.
I6 Q: Would he have be with you tht day?

IS¡ A: Yes.

(7 Q: Okay. Did you diss With the Salon Raer

(8 Distrct wht pla of opetions wa iilved in the Lity
19 Mie constaon, Wheth it wa an aJpha pla a pla as
(10) Preousl approved Did you discss tht in any way?

(7 A: I rc don't remem.
(8 Q: And do you rcm someone in the fore
(9 superr's offe naed Kun Masick? And I'l gues at

(II) A: At SOme point, I don't reem When but yes, We
1121 ta abut th project

110) sp, M-A.R-5I-cK. 111) A: Yes.And I don't mow jf he wa there either.
(121 Q: Okay. Do you mow Why you cae? Do you rememer
1131 the purose of 11.&) or an off day.

rl3) Q: And wa it your understdig tht what had be put
(1.&) in the Constation request, the project, wa the soed

lIS) al'pha pla whch is a phr tht wa us then al.pha
(IS¡ pla of opertions?
(17) MS. COOK: Why don't we fist establih tht

your viit? Presly it wa not your vacation

lIS) A: It wa relted to th proje and trg to
lIS¡ implement th opinon and trg to figue out wht haitat

(18) she's even head the te al-pha pla beuse 199) MR. MCBRIDE: Sure.

(17) wa going to be ta just to look at the site and see wher (18) the projec wa and look at the - bcus we had been tag

¡: Q: Is tht a phr tht you rcc With theLity

1'9) abut ths projec trg to figue out wht haitat wa beig
I2 taen and what the efects were.

(21) Mie proposa
I2 A: No.

Just in re though the docents, you

(21) Q: Who is "we" th YOU've be ta abut? Who are

!2 kno~ th lat week. But I don't rec using tht phr.
(24) Q: Okay. Did you ever spea to - wel lets just

lo the "we"? .
(2 A: Wel the ditrct and mys and Ha and -

1

12 stat from the begi here. You've met Mr.AAoisi beore

(24) Q: So implementi th proje wa one of the - wa a
12 manc tht you Specicay got inolved with.
Page 25 .
(1) A: Yes.

1

II) tody?
I2 A: Yes, I have.
(3 Q: OIeY.And do

Page 27

you reca when you may fi have met

I2 Q: Okay.

And how often or how reguly?

141 hi?

I3 A: I don't th tht I ca chter tht, unless
1"1 you ask me a diferent way.

I5 A: We met - we had a meetig in the forest
~6) superr's offce.

(7 dew month af th cae out. I don't re when.
181 Q: OkaY.And ha you ever be up Ede Gulch?
(9 A: Yes, i Went up there once.

I don't rc cxy when but Probaly

I5 Q: Okay. Was there a specic fidig or detetion
I6 you wated to ma with y~ur viit, then in

Juiy 1991? Did" (7 you Come to ma a fidi or to ma a detertion of some

rID) Q: You'v been up there once? Okay. Do you reem rll) when tht wa?
li21 A: I reay don't Sotie, you kno\v when I wa
113) ther, SO from tht two-yea-or-s ti peod I ~ it

(8 kid? (9 A: Not tht I rcc. We Wer - it wa may for me
¡1D) just to come se the site SÙce I ha not seen it before, and

II.& wa,.i, suer of '91. .

111) to look at - SÙce its in an HCA an it wa a sutale 112) haita and it wa COnsted on as a plaed sae, we Were told 113) to get out of plaed saes in HCA to, you mow - not to

lIS) Q: Okay. Do you rca with whom you wet on tht
li6) trp?

11.&) offer tht ti for sae. So even though th is a mig
LIS) cl you kno~ it's a sutale haitat question. So we were

117) A: J wa With Ha Frey and we cae by and saw - you
118) Wer at the cain.

~16) lookig to see if there wa any way to lesse the effect on
117) sutale haitat

i (19) MR. ALOISI:. tJuJ Ku Musick perps?
; I2 THE WIESS: I don't remem tht nae.
121) MS. COOK: For the recrd when you say "yu,"
I2 you Wi

118) Q: And were: you able to ma tht detetion?

119) A: I don't remem.
I2 Q: Okay. Did you, whe you we ther deelop your
(211 own View as to whether th area in Ede Gulch fit the: HCA

hae to incarc you're tag to Mr.AAoisi.And

!2 unorttcy, We ca't let' you tw ha convtions beus
(24) you're under oath He's r,ot. Its your deposition, SO -

I2 criteia and wa, you know, properly deignte?

(2 A: Wel the: HCA is, as i sad, a lae: area tht
(2) covers 20 or more pais of spott owl.

¡2 MR. ALOISI: i never lie. .

12 there are, you know, 20 pais of sptt owl, and so there wa

And so in tht area,

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Case VoL 1, October 2, 1997 1:95-cv-00650-LSM

Document 120-6
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('1 (Te: Witnes complie:s.)

11) Q: The fist pargrph is my foc.

12 Q: From yourundc:stadig oCthe:JulY 1990-

13) A: I'm sti ro.
(4) Q: Al rit. I'll stcp bac and you ca fi

12 A: Olay.
i: Q: 'T is the sae problem here. The Foret Sece

1") wa followi the Integency Scentic Commtt reort
I5 isn't tht wht you've sad?

is A: Okay.

I6 Q: In lit of the: July 199 opiron tht we di
!7 bcore wht would

the forc:t have beaa wati for frm the

(B A: Right. (7 Q: Wht, then are they watig for, or wh
(8 inrmtion do they nee beore thy ca apply the Integency

(8) Fish and Wildle: Sece: at th point? A re:port not

(9 scc:c: to be isc: unti Septcm? Wht might tht have:
OJ been?

is Scentic Commttee reort to a pla of opetions?

I) A: I'm not su.

(ta¡ A: Wc: aga I th th relte to our diction
(II) to get out of plaed ti sac: in HCA.And, you laO'\ 1121 yes, Mr. Aloisi's project is a mi da but it involve:d,
1131 you lao'\ remova of ti, and we conste on it as tht

2J Q: Wer you awae: duin tht pc:iod tht thc:e: wa any
3J futher consutation or issue: with the: Fish and Wildle: 41 Sece:?

51 A: Wc: we: - I'm not sue, We had deags with the
6) HCA.The Forc:t Sece irtiy adopted the strtcgy, and

11.&) par of the projec But sice it is a mig da we ca't
LIS) have hi - I mea the mi is there.1bt's where the mie

7) we had to implc:aat the ISC strtegy, wwch sets up the: HCA.

lIS¡ is, so how do we tel hi to go ahea with hi project and not
~17) be in confct gettg out of plaed sa in an HCA? And I

s) And I don't reca havig to go to Fish and Wildle Sece.
9J I don't remi:. But we did have: to tr to meet those

(18) bc:eve we had asked th regiona offce whO,1 bceve: aske

:: reqements of gett out of plaed sac: tht I mentionc:
1) bcorc:

lIS¡ the Wasllton offce wht we're supposc to do to recncie
I2 mig cl with the HCA -ad the strte.
(21) Q: The forc:t superr's offce wa inlved

ii Q: Could you look at the second pargrph as wc
IJ plea?
ii k Okay.
ij Q: And the la setece thc: wht might tht be

in tht
1

I2 refer or requc:t for iiormtion?

(2 A: I beev so.

(24! Q: And you were goin to wa for th beore approg

your widle biologit," just from 1 the forc:t and knowig abut the JulY 199 opiron?
) tag abut, "I light of

. Page 37
you're askig hc: to

\2 or reauthorig Mr.Alois to undc operons?
Page 39
II) A: Yea because in orde to implement the strtegy, we
I2 would have to say, "No, you ca't do your projec.

1 MS. COOK: Excuse me. Could you mae your
i: Q: Didn't you get a no-jeopardy opiron from the Fish
) quc:tion more prc:? Because if

) specute on wht tht lett mea on a lettr tht she's
) never seen beore and she didn't write: I don't know if tht's
J proper. But if you have a spc:c inqui -

14) and Wildle Sece in July of 199 on the project?
I5 A: Yes.
Is¡. Q: Wht, then did you additionày nee in orde to

I Q: Wht fidis would anyb have been wati for at
I tht tie?
I k I'm not sue wht thy're rdc:c: ther.

(7 alow it to go forwd without jeopardy?
(8 A: Wel the opiron on the efec on th owl is

I Q: Okay. Was it your undestadi du th peod
, of tie or when you ca to your site 'rt, when you cae to
Ed Gulch tht Mr.Alois 'W watig for word on how Ute

(9 dierent th implementi the ISC strte. Th opiron is, (ia¡ you lao'\ wht is the efec of th proje on the spttd
111) awl and her's how we th you ca mitiga efec thugh

owl afect hi opetion beore he complete the

(12) those reanale and prudet meaes.The constion (13) strtegy is a policy tht we adoptc and it says in there: get
114) out of plaed saes.
lIS) Q: Okay.

arc:logcc work .
k I don't rc.
Q: Okay. You don't ev rec diing tht state
of afs, watig to do the archeologicc work unti one
knows wht the owl'impacts on the opertion are?

~16) A: You laow, they're reltc but theyre not the sae
117) thg. So we, you kno'\ have a confct ther

(18) Q: Were you involved in 1991 in the propod
You don't

ever rc: dissing tht with anyb from the ditrct

119) desigtion of aiticc haitat for th spott owl?

A: No.

I2 A: Could you be more spc in wh you mea by
(21) "involved"?

Q: Could you look at doent 75, plea? . (Te witnc:s complies.)

I2 Q: Wel were you parcipatig in th rue mag?
(2 Were you conUibutig -

Q: Aga is th i. doct tht you reewed? kNo.

(24) A: Wel let me te you wht I did (2 Q: Plea.

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