Free Motion for Summary Judgment - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 1 of 9

EXHIBIT C

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfed Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 2 of 9
October 31,2007

Alfed Aloisi v. United States of America

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IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
ALFRED ALO I S I ,

et al.,
) ) )

8

Plaintiffs,
9

vs.
10
)

)

No. 95-650L

UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
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)

Defendants.
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)
)

..
DEPOSITION OF ALFRED ALOISI

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Wednesday, October 31, 2007
9:20 a.m.

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Reported By:

CRAIG W. WOOD, RPR, CSR No. 9789

...,.. -~ ,- .

~-.~~~-,=,~"".~v ~ A~ '-.- -''''''''''.r~= .-. ~

CRAG WOOD REPORTING
Redding, Californa --- (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 3 of 9
October 31, 2007
Page 4

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 2

I

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APPEACES
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2007, commencing at the hour of at the offces of

BE IT REMEl\ERED that on Wednesday, October 31, 9:20 a,m, of said day,
Klamath National Forest, 1312 Failane

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For the Plaintiffs:

FOlE & LANER
Washington Harbour 3000 K Street, N.W., Suite 500
Washingtn, DC 20007-5101

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5

Road, Yreka, Californa, before me, Crag W. Wood, a

Cerfied Shortd Reporter in and for the State of
Californa, there personally appeaed ALFRED L. ALOISI, who, being fit duly sworn by me to tell the trth, was
examed and testified as follows:

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BY: LAWRCEG. McBRIE
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(202) 295-4017

For the Defendant

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DEPARTM OF JUSTICE
Environmtal & Natu Resources Division

---000---

601 DStrt,N.W.
Washingtn, DC 2000 (202) 305-0238 BY: BRUCE K. Trauben

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EXAATION
BYMR TRUBEN:
Q. Will you please state your name for the record. A Alfred L. Aloisi. . Q. And you go by Fred?

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Also Present: Thomm Ferero Hilton Cass

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A Yes, I do.
Q. As you know, my name is Bruce Trauben. I
reprêsent the United States, the defendat in th

--o-

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action.

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A Yes, Bruce, I've made your acquaintace. Q. I'll have some questions for you today. And
just as an overew of what we're going to do tody, I'm
going to ask you some genera questions about the -- who

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the plaitiffs are and the statu of the plaitiffs. '
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We'll go into the proper inteest of the plaitiffs.
The knowledge of

INEX
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the owL. We'll ta about the varous

EXAATION BY:
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Mr. Trauben
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Page
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components tht go into a tags case. So just to give you an overew of what we'll be discussing.

A Th you.
. Q. And, also, we'll get into yoUr prior.
deosition. I have some follow-up questions and some.
discover responses.

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.

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A Ver well.
Q. I undetad from discussions with your

attorney, Mr. McBride, that Mr. Goodm has'passed away.

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A Yes, he has.
Q. And do you know when?
A Approxitely thee, four yea ago.

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EXBITS FOR TH DEFEANS:
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129

And I'm

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Quitclaim Dee Tax Assessor Cards Document Letter

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---000--21

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Q. Do you know, wa it sudden, his death? A. No. It was -- I believe his health 20 deterorated over a considerable period of tie. Don 21 wa diabetic and he had other problems, as well. 22 Q. Do you lrow whether his estate is still:i 23 probate? 24 A. I do not lrow. 25 Q. Do you know who is representig his estate?

15 16 17 18 19

not cer of the exact date.
Q. When did you leam of

his passing?

A I would say the year ago.

-~U.

..

"

,-,..

2 (pages 2 to 5)

CRAG WOOD REPORTING
Reddig, Californa (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 4 of 9
October 31,2007
Page 48

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 46

I

A We still held the lease.
Q. You held the lease: And was the Usher propert

1

A. Correct.
Q. And tae a look - I'm afd I have to come

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3

then -- or how did you refer to it -- the securty group
par of your operatig plan?

around I hope you don't mid.
A. It's all right.
Q. I gave you my only copy:

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5

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5

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. In ths memo Mr. Wercke attbutes to you a statement that you did not want to be involved 8 with occupancy issues? 9 A. That's not correct. 10 Q. Okay. You recall that discussion?
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A. Yes.

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A. I don't mid.

MR. McBRIE: That's fie. BY MR TRUBEN: Q. Okay. I'd like to diect your attention fit to the second page of Exhbit 2.
A. Yes, sir. Q. And ths docmnent reflects a quiet title acton
occurng about 1985?

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Q. And what did you mean or what had you said?
A. Well, tht's a -

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MR. McBRIE: Can we back up and establish any 15 foundation about occupancy issues?

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MR TRUBEN: Ver good. Than you.
Q. What occupancy issues did you and Mr. Werncke discuss? A. We posted a $600 reclamtion bond to be able to use the two Usher cabins for storage of equipment and core and also for housing for our crew. And I -- that bond, I don't believe I redeemed that bond until just
late '90s.

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A. Yes, sir. Q. IS tht the quiet title action -- do you believe tht's the quiet title action you referred to earlier in your testiony? AYes, it is. I do believe so. Q. And in whom did that title -- that quiet title

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Q. SO the occupancy issue you're referrg to is

occupancy of cabin that were located at Usher Flat. Is
Page 47

20 action quiet title? A. The Patterson estate. 22 Q. And then when did the Patteron 23 its interest in 45-B?, 24 A. It appear to be 1991. 25 Q. And is tht your understanding?
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Estate trfer

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that correct?

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A. On the Usher clai, not on the flat.
Q. Okay. Did Liber Mig intend to mie any of

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A. That's what it says. Q. That's what it says, but is that your independent understanding, as well?

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the securty group in the time period leading up to

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MR McBRIE: Can I ask for clarfication. Do
we know whether those are recordation dates or
traction indicates?

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July 23, 1990?
A. It was somethng tht we had considered adding

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on as a supplement to our Plan of Opertions. Q. You considered it, but had not done so? A Not at that point. No. We were using it

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MR. TRUBEN: Well, it has document date and

priarly for housing and rrlling, futue rrll site. MR. TRUBEN: Can you have ths maked as
Exhbit 2, please.
(Defendats' Exhbit 2 was marked.)
BY

recordig date in the two colum. 9 MR McBRIE: Fine. 10 BY MR. TRUBEN: In the firt colwn is the
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document date.'
A. Yes.

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MR. TRUBEN:

Q. You're answering my question "yes"?

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MR McBRIE: I'm sorr. Are you takig to me
MR McBRIE: Let the record show there was a

Q. ,Mr. Aloisi, I'm going to hand you what's been 16 marked Exhbit 2 to your deposition today. And I will
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or--

represent to' you that these are records that were

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11 WITNSS: It is my understading.
little conversation with counel. So we need to clarfy
the record. Can we actually have the question over

obtained locally in the county records.
A. Uh-huh.

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Q. And it concern lots 45-A and 45-B.
A. Uh-huh.

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23

Q. I believe they are ta asessor cards.
A. Yes.

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Q. And they reflect change in title to the lot 45-B and 45-A.

20 aga and then we'll -- because I'm lost now. 21 MR. TRUBEN: If you could read it back, 22 please, and mae sure we got the correct response. 23 (Record read.) 24 BY MR TRUBEN: 25 Q. And that's your understading?
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13 (Pages 46 to 49)

CRAG WOOD REPORTING
Redding, Californa (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 5 of 9
October 31, 2007
Page 52

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 50

I

A. That's my understanding.

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Q. And then just to follow up, it appears from this document that you acquired an ownership interest in lot 45-B in May 1991?
A. Yes.

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just speaking of? A. Yes, sir.
you could -Q. And if A. They are included here, sir. I'm on -- towards the back. The pages aren't numbered, but it says, "The

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Q. And then you transferred your interest to Energel in that same month? A. It was a back-to-back transaction. That's correct. you could take a look at the last page of Q. If Exhibit 2. And this is with respect to mineral lot 45-A. Correct?
A. Yes.
Q. And if

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claims listed below were being" -- "for payment of fees" -- wait a minute. W AZCO paid it. Let's see here. Q. Well, maybe it would help if! asked a question
first.

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A. All right. Please. you take a look at the page numbered I, Q. If
which is actually the second page of

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this document.
Lease, paragraph 2.1.

A. Yes, sir.
Q. And Article II, Grant of

you could take a look and state for the record whether this reflects similar transaction we had just discussed with respect to the lot 45-B? A. It appears to. Yes. Q. Okay. And so what was happening with respect 20 to lot 45-B is also happening with lot 45-A?
21
A. Yes.

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A. Uh-huh.

Q. It states that, "Lessor hereby grants, leases and let's, et cetera, all underground workings, dips, burrs, angles, dumps, tailings and stockpiles, et cetera"?
A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. So we don't need to run through all the transactions, they are occurring at the same time. Correct? A. It appears so.
Page 51

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Q. SO now having seen that, does that refresh your recollection as to whether or not you intended to lease all the mining claims, including placers?
A. Yes.

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Q. It does refresh your recollection?
Page 53

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MR. McBRIDE: Excuse me. To clarifY my own notes and the like, that was deposition Exhbit 2? MR. TRAUBEN: Correct. MR. McBRIDE: Than you. BY MR. TRAUBEN:
Q. In April, 1993, I believe you entered into a

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A. Yes, it does. Q. And your recollection is that you did intend to lease the placer claims? A. It appears I did lease the placers. Q. And that was your intent to lease all the
placer claims to W AZCO?

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lease ageement with a company called W AZCO, Inc.?

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A. WAZCO. Q. WAZCO, W-A-Z-C-O.
A. Yes.

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Q. In that lease were all the rnning claims in
Eddy Gulch leased to W AZCO?

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A. I know the lode properties were. I'rn not sure of the associated placers. Q. Do you know whether that was -- your intent was to lease all the claims, including the associated
placers to W AZCO?

A. I don't know if it was my intent. I'm just them to them. Q. Okay. And all the lode claims, as well? A. That was my intent. Q. And that's what this document effectuated? A. Yes, sir. Q. We are done with that for the time being. Can you take a look at A-181 that was recently produced by plaintiffs.
saying that we did lease all of

A. Yes.

Q. Take a moment and look that over.
A. Yes, I have. I'm familiar with this document.

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A. I don't know if that was our intent because they had no interest in ming the dumps. Q. Do you have tab Forest Service 142 in front of
you? Should be in this book here.
A. Yes. Lease ageement.

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Q. That's the lease ageement?
A. Uh-huh.

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,

Q. And between you and W AZCO in 1993 that we were

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Q. And what is this document? Delinquency to a Co-Owner Labor. It's advertising someone out of a on Proof of claim. Q. And that person is Mr. Kendle? A. Kendle Trucking, John Kendle and James Kendle.
A. This is a Notice of Q. James Kendle, one of

;

the plaintiffs?

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14 (Pages 50 to 53)

CRAIG WOOD REPORTING
Redding, California (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 6 of 9
October 31, 2007
Page 72

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 70

I believe, their water specialist, came up on the arenc.

1 A. Yes.
,2 Q. Was a reclamtion plan fied?
3 A. I don't know. The Forest Servce has its own

2 And I did provide her with some docuentation.
3 I don't know about ths letter you asked about,

4 but we gave her cross-$ections of our core drll holes
5 that showed the arenic percentages, ascendig and
6 descending, what percentage wa there in the background.

4 way of dealing with reclamation plan. They like to set

5 the bonds rather than SMA at least at tht tie. It
6 was a lead agency. 7 So basically prior to your gettng your plan
8 approved, the Forest Servce requies that a reclamation

7 Once aga, we're establishing background values. And
8 that was provided to the Forest Servce.

9 Q. SO had Libert Minig conducted any studies, to 10 your knowledge, tht analyzd whether any arenopyrtes

9 bond be posted and they set the bond. And we had paid

10 and had a reclamation bond in place. Whether they

i 1 remaied in the taligs --

12 A. No. 14 A. No.

11 'provided that to SMA or the County, ldon't recalL.

13 Q. -- afer the process?
15 Q. And-16 A. That was somethg that Don Moore was, as I

12 Q. Okay. Ar a reclamtion bond and a reclamation 13 plan the same thg? 14 A. A reclamtion bond is put up in case the mier
15 doesn't perform the reclamtion work, the Forest Sece 16 has the bond to perorm that work. And I might add, 17 they really do so.

17 said, responsible for, was to remove any sort of metals 18 that might cause acidification or oxidation. 19 Q. But he hadn't -- but to your knowledge, he has

18 MR McBRIE: Can I clarfy, was your queston
19 specific20 MR TRUBEN: No. Let rne follow up :frst, 21 please.
22 MR. McBRIE: Than you.

20 not yet done that?
21 A. Not to my knowledge.

22 MR TRUBEN: Is Don Moore an expert in ths
23 action? Wil he be identified as an expert in ths

23 BYMR TRUBEN:
24 Q. Okay. What I'm asking is whether a reclamation 25 plan was fied by Libert Ming with the Siskiyou
Page 73

24 action?

25 MR McBRIE: Tht's a futu determation.
Page 71

1 BYMR TRUBEN:
2 Q. But he has provided data relatig to the costs
4 A For

1 County.

2 A. Same anwer. I don't know. I know we fied it
3 with the Forest Serce. I know Har Frey had been in

3 and so fort that plaintiffs are relyig on? circuit. Yes. our milling

4 touch with the plang deparent. They had our

5 Q. Who is Dan McClai?

6' A. Dan McClain is a employee of the State of
7 Californa, divisions of

5 reclamtion plan and our bond to make sure tht that . 6 Teclamation was cared out.
7 ' Q. Was it your understading tht the Forest

mies and geology. He

8 specialzes in permttg. He's got quite an extensive

8 Servce would have fied the plan with the county?
9 ' A. They would have been the lead agency. Just
10 lie they would be the ones tht would fie it with

9 resume in that regad.

10 Q. IS there a Dan McClain that was contrcted by 11 Libert Mig to do any consulting work?

12 A. Assisting us in our permttg process.
13 Q. Assisting., Okay. 14 And did he meet with Californa Regional Water
15 Qualities Control Board?

11 SMA or do your archae study or file your biological 12 opinon, they took the lead role in that. 13 Q. SO it was not Libert Mig's responsibility
14 to fie the plan with the county?

15 A. We probably had a responsibility to have the
Liber Mine?

16 A. He was in touch with thern telephonically, I
17 believe.
18 Q. At the direction of

19 A. Yes.

16 plan. I don't know if it was our responsibility to fie 17 it with the county or if the Forest Servce was tag 18 care of that. 19 But I know that there is documentation in here
20 where we were going to file a reclamation, all phase 21 reclamation plan with them, but that never eventuated

20 Q. Was a determnation made that a reclamation
21 plan with the Siskiyou County would need to be filed?
22 A. Yes. We spoke with Siskiyou County Plamng

22 because we were stopped before that could happen.
23 Q. Okay. And when you say you were stopped,

23 Deparent.

24 Q. And they requested that a reclamation plan be 25 filed?
. ,

24 you're refeITg to the Januar 4, 1990, stop work
25 order?

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19 (Pages 70 to 73)

CRAG WOOD REPORTING
Reddig, Californa (530) 244-0789

ß

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 7 of 9
October 31, 2007
Page 76

Alfed Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 74

1 A. That's correct.

2 Q. Ths is sort of a backtck, you rnght say, but
3 what is the Bonan King claim?

1 A. Yes, sir.
2 Q. And rny question is, why was ths work done? 3 A. As par of establishig the daages for our

4 A. What is it?

4 lawsuit.
5 Q. And not in conjunction with any operations at
6 the mie site?

5 Q. Yes.

6 A. The Bona Kig wa a very rich, mgh grde
7 lode deposit in the Trities. And it's one of the
8 propertes'that we took a prett good look at.

7 A No, sir.
8 Q. And Ega and Redmond will be experts in ths
9 matter?

9 Q. Did you pedonn any minig at --

10 A. Yes;we did.
11 Q. You did? 12 A. Uh-huh. 13 Q. Opertions?

10 A You'll have to ask Mr. McBride that question.

11 Q. Wht are your daags in ths lawsuit?
12 A. Emotional? Moneta? What tye of daages?

13 Q. Plaitiffs allege a tag in ths case. They,
14 I asume, wat compensation?

14 A. We-15 Q. Or production, excuse me. I mean production. 16 A. Production, no. We did not have producton
17 there. It was an exploration and development program

15 A Just compensation. Yes.
16 Q. Just compensation for the alleged tang?

17 A. Yes, sir.
18 Q. Then my question is, what is the amount of

18 tht we were carg on in the Trities at the time. 19 Q. That's in a forest south of the Klamth
20 National Forest?

that

19 just compenation?

21 A. Yes. Trity National Forest.
22 Q. Were Spotted Owls in the Trities?

20 A. At ths time or then? The price of gold has
21 raised drtically since ths took place.

22 Q. Well, there is some mitue oflaw and fact
23 here. And based on my understadig of the law, the
24 question is what was the amount of compensation due

23 A. More than likely. They have a Nortern Spotted
24 OWL though most of

the Californa, so I would assume

25 so.
Page 75

25 plaitiffs at the tie of the tag?
Page 77

1 Q. Was that an issue when you were operating down
2 there?

3 A. No. The owl wasn't listed until 1990. And I
4 believe we were operting down there prior to that tie. 5 Q. If you could take a quick look at A-55.

1 A. Well, my experts say $22 milion. 2 Q. And what does that amount represent? 3 A. Tht represents what we would have eared had

4 we been allowed to proceed in a tiely fashion. Dug
5 a period of time over an approxiate four-year period.

6 A. Yes, sir.
7 Q. If

6. And we'd also like to see compound interest

you want to flp though tht and tell me

7 added to it.
8 Q. And 9 in 1990 or tht

8 whether or not tht is your handwrting?

9 A. It's not.
10 Q. You recognze that as the handwrting of
11 Mr. Ferrero?

would that $22 million have been generated period, 1990-1994, would that have been

10 the profits eared tht you estiate by Libert Minig?

12 A. I do.
13 Q. Will you do me a favor and, please, tae a look
14 at A-63?

11 A. Yes. That's what was estited.
12 Q. Estimated from the entie ming opertion in
13 Eddy Gulch?

14 A. That's correct. Well, not the entie minig
15 operation. It would have been generated from the dumps

15 MR. McBRIE: Ths is a book that's gotten
16 bound and rebound. I'rn not sure if I have exactly the 17 sameA-63.

16 and the apex. Doesn't include the underground.

17 Q. Why is tht? Why does it not include the
18 underground?

18 MR. TRUBEN: I probably only have a few pages.
19 Somethng dated November 9, 1995. And it says,

19 A. Because we weren't permtted at that tie to do
20 the underground. We're only suig for what was

20 "Gentlemen, we are pleased to present our report."
21 MR McBRIE: Th

you.

22 THE WITNSS: Uh-huh.

21 penntted. At least in our rnnds it was pertted. 22 Q. When you say "underground," you're referrg to

23 BY MR. TRUBEN:
24 Q. Ths is a report from Ega and Redmond dated

25 November 9, 1995. Correct?

..

23 tuelling?
24 A. Underground lode deposits. Yes, sir.
25 Q. Do plaintiffs allege tht the goverment took
--- ~u'--i..'r:""
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¥""~n-

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20 (Pages 74 to 77)

CRAG WOOD REPORTING
Redding, Californa (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfed Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 8 of 9
October 31, 2007
Page 132

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 130

1

I have segments of it, though. I rnean -- wat a miute
here. Okay. Q. Does ths document reflect any tests done that

1

hi. Their names

2
3

2
3

escape me at the moment. Q. Did they do some samplig?

A. I don't th so. I th they took some

4
5

were also done by Cal Nickel?
A. Yes. Cal NickeL. Yes.

4
5

report and that tye of thng.
Q. And what was the resut --

Q. Do you know -- do you have an understanding 7 what the relationsmp is between Inter-American and Cal 8 Nickel? 9 A. I don't. 10 Q. Were there separte samples sent to 11 Inter-Amercan and Cal Nickel? 12 A. I don't recalL. Mr. Lowenhupt was on site and
13

6

6 7
8

A. I'rn sorr. We have sent chern's samples out, it
says. So I would have to change that statement based on

what I've just read.

9
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11

Q. Based on what's in the document now, not in
your own recollection?

A. Yes. Yeah. Ths is the geology field trp
tht we sponsored.

took thesÐ saples. That's all -- that's about rny

12 13

recollection of it. Ths wa quite good. 15 Q. Do you know whether these results have been 16 used by plaintifs in any of their subsequent analyses? 17 A. I believe that Mr. Ferrero references them in
14
18 19
ms workup.

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15 . A. Not the company. No. Varous individuals.
Q. Was that a field trp, then, tht ths doesn't belong with the letter?

tr? p.

Q. Was the company parcipating in the field

A. I don't th so.
Q. Okay. Sometimes that happens, docuents are

20
21

22 23 24 25

Q. We'll get into that more tornorrow, I suppose. A. All right,. you could hand tht to the reporter. Q. If A. Yes, sir.
Q. ll give tts back to your counel.

20 stapled together inadvertently. 21 Then we can pull the second page off if it's 22 not related and the exhbit will just be the one page.
23
A. Verywell.

(Defendats' Exbit 4 was marked.)

24
25
Page 131

BYMR TRUBEN:

A. I ttnk it wa about tht tie. Yes.
Page 133 -

Q. Did Licar visit in 1989?

i
2
3

Q. Mr. Aloisi, I'm handing you what's been rnarked

1

as Exhbit 4 to your deposition.
A. Oh, Yes.

2
3

Q. And what was the result ofthe visit? A. Alcoa -- or rather Western Mining Corp, they
were having some problems at Carson Hil and they

4
5

Q. Do you recogne that document? A. Yes.

4
5

decided they didn't want to get involved with California. There's too many bureaucrts.
,Q. SO they did not invest?

6 7
8

Q. Wht is it?
A. It is a letter to rne frm Ben Licar from the Western Mig Corp, wmch is Alcoa Alumium of Austria. They came up and made a site visit and tts
is a follow-up letter. Q. In the upper right-hand corner, is that your
handwrtig, number ten? A. No.

6

7
8

A. No.

Q. Were they looking to -- to your knowledge, were
they considering purchasing Libert Mining's claims or

9 10
11

9 10
11

12 13

14
15

Q. Do you know whose hadwrtig it is? A. I do not.
Q. Do you know -- says there's going to be some follow-up or refers to some follow-up there that they're
"trg to interest the big boys," I thnk is what he

16 17 18 19

says. Do you know what he's talng about?

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

were they interested in leasing? A. I don't know. i don't recall. Q. That just reminded me of a question I wanted to
ask. Previously you were referrng to the W AZCO lease
in April 1993.

You know what I'm referrng to?

A. Yes, I do. Q. When did the negotiations leading to that lease begin?
A. 1992.

ì ;

20
21

A Yes.
Q. What is that?
A. They were interested in the propert. Q. Who is "they"?
A. Ben

20
21

Q. When in 1992?
A. FalL.

22 23 24 25

22 23

Q. September, October?

Licar. And I believe Western Mining Corp.

24

He came up and visited and had some people along with 25 -. ~~ -- .!.V~"V~~~T- ~""'"""¡.~i~~.,,,.

A. Somewhere around there. Yes. Q. Who approached whom? A. Andy McBroom approached me on behalf ofWAZCO.
-

34 (Pages 130 to 133)

CRAG WOOD REPORTIG,
Reddig, Californa (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 120-5

Filed 02/06/2008

Page 9 of 9
October 31,2007
Page 148

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 146

, 1 (Off

the record.)

1 response to Interrogatory No.3.

2 BY MR TRUBEN:
3 Q. You have the response to interrgatories in
4 front of

2 A Yes.
3 Q. Relating to penntting hauling for the Liber 4 Mies. In the page 13 at the last clause it says,
5 "Plaintifs did not spend their limited resources to

you?
those ,

5 A. Yes.
6 Q. And did you assist in the prepartion of

6 acquire any other pennts."

7 responses?

7 A. That's correct.

8 A. No.

8 Q. Was that a business decision?

9 A. It was a strtegic deciion. 10 TH WISS: On ths? 10 Q. Strtegic. 11 MR McBRIE: Excuse me, if! may. 11 A. Tactical. 12 THE WIS~: Maybe I'm rnsunderstadig here. 12 Q. To conserg fmancial resources?
13 Yes. Excuse me.

9 MR McBRIE: What?

14 BY MR TRUBEN:
15 Q. You assisted in the prepartion of some of

13 A. Correct. And I also might add, that until we
the
14 receive the biological opinion, which wehad once, we 15 were reluctant to spend anymore fuds until we knew 16 whether or not we were going to get clearce, given the 17 sincere efforts we had made to get it penntted fuly
18 the fit tie.

16 responses?

17 A. Yes.
the responses? them. 20 Q. Okay. But you're famliar with the responses? 21 A. Somewhat. Yes.
18 Q. But not all of 19 A. Not all of

19 'Q. Did Libert Mig have limited resources? 20 A. Yes, it did.
21 Q. And tht

was the sitution thoughout its

22 Q. Okay. And you did sign a certfication?

23 A. Yes, sir.
24 Q. Okay. Can you tae a look at page 5,
25 subpargrph B, in response to Interrogatory No.1.
Page 147

23 A. Yes.
24 Q. IS tht a fair charcterition?
25 A. Yes. We were hoping to realize a profit on our
Page 149

22 existence.

1 A. Yes.
2 Q. And at the bottom of subpargrph B there's a
3 clause thee in parentheses towards the bottom.

1 investment backed expectations.

2 Q. To whom did W AZCO and Libert Consolidated Mine

3 make payments on their leases?

4 A. Yes. 5 Q. And that states, "Based on the Forest Servce's
6 failure ever to take fuer action With respect to
7 Plaitiffs mining Plan of Operations, afer its receipt
8 of

4 A. Tome.
5 Q. Personally? 6 . A. Yes.
'7 Q. Was any of

that income shared with any ofthe

ths Februar 8, 1994, second biological opinion some

8 other plaintiffs?

9 much later date." You see that response?

9 A. Yes.
10 Q. With whom?

10 A. Yes, I see that.
11 Q. Ths is in response to defendat's request that 12 plaintiffs identi the tangs period, when the takg
13 bega, when it ended. And ths suggests that it would
14 end at some much later date. '

11 A. My wife.
12 Q. Anyone else?
13 A. I may have sent some payments to Don. I'm not

15 Do plaintiffs today, as we're sittg here, have
16 a - can respond with more defintelyto ths - or do '

14 quite certain. I know I sent him monies, but I'm not 15 certain if it was originated from -- from where it

17 they still intend to leave it open-ended on the closing

16 orginated. 17 Q. By my rough calculations, I'm estimating that
18 approximately $120,000 was received from W AZCO and LCM,
19 Libert Consolidated combined. Is that approximately

18 period of date tag?

19 A. That is somethg that based on lega counel
20 will be determed. If I had my drthers, I'd have it 21 go from the begig until the present tie, but I
22 don't know if that's possible.
23 Q. .Is the Rollin site par of

20 corect? 21 A. I think so.
22 Q. You think it was more?

24 A. No.

the takgs claim?

23 A. No. I also might point out to you, though,
24 Mr. Trauben, there were other term and conditions as

25 far as monies that were to have been generated insofar 25 Q. If you can look at page 13. Ths is in " .~~~-~~-~ ~ ..~

'=~"~""~

,- -

38 (pages 146 to 149)

CRAIG WOOD REPORTING
Redding, Californa (530) 244-0789