Free Sur-Reply - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:99-cv-00550-ECH

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EXHIBIT 4

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IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

THE OSAGE NATION and/or TRIBE OF INDIANS OF OKLAHOMA, Plaintiff, vs. No. 00-169L JUDGE EMILY C. HEWITT

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, Defendant

VIDEO 30(b)(6) DEPOSITION OF CAROL REVARD, a witness called on behalf of the Plaintiff, on the 24th day of August, 2005, at 813 Grandview Avenue, in the City of Pawhuska, County of Osage, and State of Oklahoma, commencing at 9:25 a.m., before the undersigned, Elizabeth Davidson, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of Oklahoma. Fee for Original: $ Paid by Plaintiff. ELIZABETH DAVIDSON, CSR #122

DAVIDSON REPORTING SERVICE CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS 5508 South Lewis Tulsa, OK 74105 (918) 745-9959

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A. Q. A.

In the Tranche -- 1976? In January 1976. No, they -- they had all been shipped to

the repository. Q. Okay. So you have not seen -- Have you

seen the highest posted price bulletin for January 1976? A. Q. No. Okay. Is that a document that you would

expect to see in order to calculate what the proper royalty payments were for that month? A. Q. Yes. Okay. And that -- and I take it, but

correct me if I'm wrong, have you seen any of the documents -- the supporting documents behind that price bulletin, that is the posted prices for the top producers in the relevant geographic market? A. Q. A. In 1976? Yes. No, all the -- all the supporting

documents and everything was all shipped together. Q. Okay. Do those documents -- Okay. And

you have not been able to find those documents, I take it? A. Not here. I -- I looked, but I could not

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find them or even a copy of them. Q. And they haven't been provided to you in

the course of this litigation or in preparation for today's deposition? A. Q. No. Okay. Do you know, even without looking

at any documents, how the Agency, and, again, in the Tranche one month, determined who were the top 80 producers in the relevant geographic market or the top 80 percent producers? A. Q. Do I know who they are? No, do you know how they determined who

those top 80 percent producers were? A. Q. No. Okay. Do you know of any records that

would exist that would indicate that? A. They would exist, but they would have been

with that supporting documents that -Q. Okay. And so you don't know where those

documents are? A. I believe they all went to the American

Indian Repository Record Center. Q. But you haven't -- You have not actually

seen those documents; is that correct? A. No, not before they were sent. They was

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-- I had no reason to look back in 1976. Q. And they have not been -- and those

documents have not been provided to you in preparation for this deposition; is that correct? A. Q. Yes. Do you know if, in 1976, there was any

effort made to determine what the highest offered price was for crude oil in the mid-continent area? A. Q. No, I don't. Okay. Do you know -- Let me ask you this As a process, if a -- in 1976,

question in general:

if a lessee or purchaser underpaid royalty, do you know what the process was for correcting that underpayment? A. Let's see, they would have -- the

technicians would have found -- discovered the -- the difference and would have billed the lessee. I

believe, back then they used the DI-1040 bill for collection and mailed that to them. Q. Okay. Were you able to determine if there

were any underpayments for the Tranche one leases during the Tranche one months? A. Q. No. Okay. Were you able to determine -- Well,

strike that.

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Q.

Okay.

Did you spend -- How much time do

you think you spent looking through this 1976 folder? A. Q. A. this one. Q. Okay. Are these, the documents in the Probably -- 1976 folder? Uh-huh. About 30 minutes -- 30 minutes or less on

1976 folder, the only documents that you're aware of regarding how the royalty payments were calculated for the Tranche one leases during the first Tranche one month? A. that again? Q. Are these, the documents in the 1976 These are the only documents -- What was

folder in Exhibit 3, the only documents that you're aware of that relate to the -- the actual royalty amounts for the Tranche one leases in the first Tranche one month, only documents you're aware of? A. Q. A. Yes. Okay. Well, would you -- would you rephrase that

I'm not quite sure what you meant on that. Q. I'm -- I'm just trying to see whether that

you're aware of any other documents that relate to the -- the calculation and determination of royalty

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amounts on the Tranche one leases for the first Tranche one month and -- and -A. Q. In this folder? No, if there are any -- If you're aware of

any other documents beyond what's in this folder? A. Well, we would -- we would receive from

the purchaser their summary statement indicating a total volume and total royalty that would be paid to us. Q. A. Q. A. Q. Okay. Have you seen those documents?

Not in this one, no. Have you seen them anywhere else? No. Have -- Do you know one way or the other

whether those documents exist? A. Not without -- Well, unless they were

shipped off with the -- to the repository with the rest of the documents. Q. Do you -- do you have -- I'm sorry, I Were you done?

didn't mean to cut you off. A. Q. Yes.

Are you aware of the effort by both

parties to search through the -- the documents at the AIRR facility? A. Yes.

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royalty barrels and royalty amount.

Do you know what

this document -- Have you seen this before? A. Q. showing? A. report. Q. Agency? A. auditor. Q. I guess my question is this is reflecting It goes to the auditor too, the tribal Let's see, we call this the oil production We still make this up here currently. Is this -- is this just for the Osage Yes, we -- Yes, I have. What -- Can you just describe what it's

production from Osage County only; is that correct? A. Oh, yes, yes, production, volume and

royalty that we receive from all the crude oil purchasers, and this one also is including the tank bottom oil. Q. Okay. Okay. And did you determine --

Well, let me ask you this general, for 1979 period, did you -- Were any of the highest posted price bulletins available? A. here. Q. Okay. With the collection of documents in I didn't see one in here. No, not in

the 1979 folder from Exhibit 3, is it possible to --

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Q.

Were there any highest posted price

bulletins in this folder? A. Q. No. Were there enough documents in this folder

to verify the -- the accuracy of any royalty payments for this month? A. Q. No? A. Q. No. Okay. Let me ask you to pick up the 1986 For individual -- The five leases? Yes. No.

folder from Exhibit 3. A. Q. (Witness complied.) And ask you first how much time do you

think you spent reading through this document? A. Q. About 15 -- 15 minutes. Okay. Did you perform any calculations or

analysis using the data in this folder? A. Let me see. No, I didn't have enough

information. Q. A. Q. Okay. What information were you missing?

The check detail. Okay. And what would the check detail

have shown you? A. The royalty for each of the run statements

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in here. Q. Okay. And -- and those documents weren't

provided to you? A. Q. No. Okay. Are there enough documents in this

1986 folder from Exhibit 3 to verify the accuracy of any royalty payments made for that period? A. Q. I -- I came across one here. Yes.

Which -- what -- Is there a number on the

lower left-hand corner? A. Ends with 1457, past the -- where the blue

sheet says Osage Hominy unit. Q. A. Okay. And what is this 1457?

On this sheet, it shows -- it's a run

statement from Union for the Hominy unit B, and it's enough to show where it indicates the -- hundred percent barrels, there's a price, and down below someone had written the royalty rate and the royalty we received. Q. A. Where does it say -Next to the royalty -- that one-sixth down

at the bottom. Q. A. It's one-sixth ROI period? Uh-huh. The one-sixth is the royalty

rate, and the ROI is the royalty we would have

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statement, it's showing that everything was paid less than the highest posted price. So these other two

columns, without calculating it myself now, I could -- I could probably -- I mean, I could figure that out just to make sure those three totals is the additional royalty. Q. A. '89. Q. Okay. So you -- you don't know for Okay. Do you recognize that handwriting?

No, I don't know who was here in '80 --

certain what those numbers are, but your belief is that they are the -- they're calculating the -A. Q. royalty? A. Well, the royalty that they paid is this Additional royalty. Just the additional royalty, not the full

top -- the royalty that they calculated the statement totals is that $1,624.98. Q. A. And how do you know that? Well, if I had a calculator, I could

figure that out to see for sure, but that -- that is -- looks like that's what it is, and then for the three lines there, it's additional royalty. Q. Okay. And is there any record of action Have you

taken to collect that additional royalty?

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seen any documents? A. No, there would be a bill, and there's not

one in here. Q. Okay. And are you -- Have you seen such a

bill for this particular payment? A. Q. No, no. Okay. Other than that, did you do any

other calculations or analysis with the information in this folder? A. Q. No. Okay. Did you attempt to verify the

amount of the royalty payments for any of the other leases in this 1989 Tranche period? A. If they were in here and had something to

match with, I did. Q. A. Okay. I don't see a Tranche one lease in here.

There's a run statement for Hominy primary A and B, but there's no check detail to check the royalty with. Q. Okay. So there you don't have enough

information to -A. Q. A. No. -- determine the amount of the royalty? Right, I don't have that.

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A.

Just a few of just of -- And individuals

just handwritten procedure that they had written down for someone to due process their job. Q. Okay. Do you know, are any of those

handwritten or typed up procedures included in Exhibits 1 or 2, the notebooks that were provided? A. Q. A. No, no. Do you know if those documents -I've seen them years ago, but I don't know

-- I don't where they are, where they are at now. Q. Okay. When was the last time you recall

seeing them? A. something. Q. procedures? A. Lorraine Wilcox, and she also had one for Probably eight, ten years ago, eight or It was just the gas procedures. Do you know who did it, who wrote the

-- well, not a procedure, but there was just a -- in the vault, where everything was located back then, what drawer held old reports and what drawer held gas and all that. Q. Okay. Just a couple more. Did you -- Let

me ask you, did you read those guidelines, the instructions that Ms. Wilcox had done? A. Yes.