Free Motion to Dismiss - Rule 12(b)(1) - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:06-cv-00306-MCW Document PERSONNEL 03/15/2007 Filed AC'~ ,JN N~=.,~IF|CATION OF 21-2
1.~

Page 1 of 25

LARGE. ,TERESA K CONV T9 CAREER CBND APPT .
ACM DO PT B I133 "'

15, TO: Pos~k~

SURVYG TECHN£N
111~09 N5022

14. Nz,',ne

FOREST SERVICE
NORTH DEERLBDGE

',

NATIONAL FOREST

BUTTE

MT

7777

BUTTE

SILVER BD~

MT

i 50. S~gna~umlAut~ent~ation and T~ of Appro,,hng Otfic~

,- CLgDE G~ NCSHAN~ 09/02/88 DgRECr~R ~F THE
Prswous Ed~lzons Unusa¢~ At~ 9£'~0h£=~ NSN 7540-01-250-04.~

2~F ~y~Te~--N NOT DESTROY

Rev~ 7/91 U.S. Office of Personnel Manasement

Case 1:06-cv-00306-MCW ¯ . . ,~

NOTiFICATiON OF PERSONNEL ACTION .... " ¯
" ~~= I 12/30/54 I 06/02/91' " ~ ~ ',

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LJ~NGE, TERESA K .. PROMOTION

REG 335.102 COMP
.

?. ~OM: Pos~on T~e and Num~r

RESOURCE CLK .i144709 N5208'

15. TO: ~os~on ~e and Num~r

~CIVIL ENGRG TECHNCN
1159009 N5052

...."~ ~ 11.01~ .... 05 ! .:..o51. z-q~237.no..!_ P.A.. [ 0802J" 07 I 01 ] 21r023.00' PA GS
,!g,237- 001
-001, 19~237.001 ' .00
14. Name and I.cation of Postlon's Oroanlzatlgn

.21,,K,023.00l=

.00I'~ 21~023.001~

.00

~. Name end ~catlon of ~sltlon's O~an~zm~0n

FOREST SERVICE NORTH REG #REGIOHI#
BEAYERHEAD NATIONAL FOREST

~

23. V~darans Preflmnca 1-None 2-5 PolnL "~.1

3-10 Polnt/nllablllty 4-10 Point/Compare;able

26. Veterans Preference 5";' 10 Point/Other ¯ 6-10 Polnt/Compene|bla/30% ~ O--None 2-Condltlonzl ~ [ 1-Permznent 3-Indefinite ¯ 28. Annuitant IltdFc'~tor

7YES '~-~NO ¯
2~. PW Rate Dntarmlnznt

I WAIVED

9-~ NOT APPLICABLE
I~. ~=,-Tlme Hoqm ~r

~4. Position OccuplBd 1-Competitive Service 3-SES General 1 2-Excepted Service " ' 4-SES Career Reserved 38. Duty Station Code

37. Bargaining Unit S~= N-Nonexempt S~tion (CIw - ~unW - Stats or

0634

40. AGi=NCY DATA ~ 41.
~ 422 ....

30-0180-093

45. Remarks

SELECTED FRoM

DATED

~ins ~Rment or Agenw

~TMENT
47. Agen~, Coda

AG ii
3-Part 50-3~5

OF AGRICULTURE ~. P,r~onnal ore=, ~D ~s.~pp,~,~ D~t~ ~ ..... ..... 5027 ~ 0 2 / 2 8 / 9 g

j

5O. Signature/Authentication and 33tie o~ Approving Official

DONNA D BEECHER ~DI~....~..._...~FF HUMA~ RESOURCES MGMT
~itions

2 - OPF Copy - Long-Te~ Record - DO NOT ~S~OY

Case 1:06-cv-00306-MCW

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CCP Profile History
Lanai,e, Kim " Current Certific~io~
¯ 01 Roads 02TS Inspector 03PW insl~ctor 04Aggregate Base 13TS ER 14PW COR 04 Aggregate.Base ~a t/ixto~ 01 Roads 02 TS Inspector 03 PW Inspector Gr~z .~ 10 Aspha/t Surface Treatment ' 13 TS ER . .. ~1/~1996 4411/21j03 5/1/1997 4/11/'2003 6/111999 4/11/2003 4/11/2003 01 02 Beavedaead-OeedodgeNational Forest " Series 0802 0102 ¯ ¯

¯ Written Basic Oral Written Wdtten ¯ Basic Oral Written Wd'den AdV Oral"
Adv Oral Wltttaw

P " 5/3t/1993 P , 5/31/1993. P 5/31/1993 P. 5/31/1993

p
P P P"

sr~/1ss3
5~31/1996 5/31/1997 5/31/1999

04Aggregate Base 05Concrete 10 Asphalt Surface 13TS ~ Rep
14 PW COR

NP 5/31/1999

P 5/3111997 P-- 5/Sllt997-

Wednesday, Mm..' 2P,, 201~3

Page 12 of 280

Case 1:06-cv-00306-MCW
United States De@actmen~ of

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~

Forest

Helen~ ~ ~9601. ~,

Agricultur~

6320 Route
Subject:.

Da~:

July 17, 1998

Abandoned Mine Reclamation Arrowhead Reclamation Atm: Troy Smith 43. Mayflower. Road Whitehall, MT 59759.
!

' RECE/VED '

.This letter serves a~.notice, ,that you have been awarded a contract in the amount of $2400.00, for., the reclamation of abandoned tnirte.shafts and. adits in the Homestake-Cpyote Fiats are of the Jefferson R.D, Beaverhe;ad-Dedrodge NF. The speeifieatiofis discussed by yourself~nd Josl3in Dodge are attaehedand hereby made a phrt 0fthis contract. ., ' As we discuzsed yesterday, Davis-Bacon Wages apply, and the applicable wage determination is attached. Payroll records are required to be submitted when the proje~ is completed. Copies of the form. are enclosed for your use.
Kim Lange wiU be the COP,. on this project, with Joeelyn the on-site impeetor.

All work must be completed by September 30, 1998. Upon completion, and acceptance of the workbytheForestS~6ee,_I will ~sue a.check for.. paym .,ont. To process payment, I wil! need an invoice, along with the attached certification form, and your payroll records marled to me at the Helena National Forest, Attn: Laurie Hamers, 2880 Skyway Drive Helena MT 5960 I.
Thank you for worldng with us on this project..If you have any questions you can eontadt me at

LAURIE A. ~RS ..Contracting Offider Enclo~a'e cc: ~locelyn Dodge, Butte RD, B-D NF Kim Lange, Butte ILU, B-B NF

Caring for the Land and Ser,6ng People

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USD~- Fore~ Semite 4~3-03H6-8-0084

~TILE CODE 6320

CO~CTI~G o~rz~.)S
KIM LANGE

~'NIT" B-D NAT I ONAL FOREST

PRO~ECt MI NI~ RECLAMATION HYDROMETR I CS ! NC This is your ~designa~ion as Contracting Officer's .Represen,~ative to administer the above con~.~aC~o Yo~ major-..~u~ies, a.n~. res, ponsib'ilities are contained in ~he Handbook of Con=tact Adminis~-Tationo You .are delegated full authority under the ~¢ontrac~ except for t~ followin~ ac~, ions wh1~:h are ~,eserved foe ~he, Contracting ¯ Issue a i,No~ic~ to Proceed to the 2. Approve 'Change Orders a~d Amendments~ ', 3. Tak~ action ~o termlna~e ~he c~ntrac~ for ~efaul~ or ~ver~en~ convenience. M~ ~t~a~', adjus~en~s under the 'Differing Site ~i~io~ clause. S. Grit ~ensio~ of conn~ t~. 6; Approve Assi~ent o~ Cla~s. 7. M~e final decisions un~ the Disputes clause. M~ f~al .accep~ce under the 9. M~e f~ decisions under ~he S~s~nsion of Work clause. 10. Make e~i~le 11. 12. A~rove A~Eove f~ p.a~n~8 ¯ AppEove use ~d ~8session prior t~ cc~letion~ Enforce the w~Ey provisions.

i ~ATE

CC: CONTP~ACTO~ FOREST, TECHniCAL A~D D!~/ISZOR~ CO~I~ FILES, ~ ~ ~o

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I 2
TERESA KIM

THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

I APPEARANCES

4 6

PLaintiff, vs. ~USE ~. ~-03-61-~-RFC ~ M. V~. SECRETARY, UNITED STATES OEP~T OF AGRICUL~RE, Defe~nt.

FOR THE PLAINTIFF: 5 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 21 GREGORY C. BLA(~ ATTORNEY AT LAW CORETTE PONt.MAN & KE~E 129 WEST PA~ STREET BUTTE, ~OqTANA 59701 FOR 1HE DEFENDANT: MOTHY J. CAVAN ~IS. ATTORNE~f'S OFFICE SSISTANT U.S. ATTORNEY U

9 10 11
DEPOSITI~ OF TE~SA KIM ~E

13 14 15 16 17 18 19 ' 20 21

P~ O. BOX 1478 BILLINGS, HONTA~A 59101 ALSO PRESENT.~ CAROL A. KITTSON

Takm ~ff~E ~H~& K~ 129 ~ST PA~ S~E~

24

24 25

4

I

s 6 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21

TERESA KIM LANGE: Examination by Hr. Cavan ................ CORRECTION SHEET .............................. DEPONENT' S CERTIFICATE ........................ COURT REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE ..................
INDEX TO EXHIBITS FIRST REFERENCE[

4

I 2 3 4

~ssa~le

~

Documents concerning grievance .......... frpm Lg,rri~J~ormley to Kim Lange tea-Oct~er ~, ~L~Ju .................. tificat~on To ~vk ~ fr~ ~i~nge

59 61

Part 1 ~Part II of griev~ce, DecOr Letter to Ca~ Fray ~d Kim R]G~rd L. J~e, d~t~ J~ry~o, letter fr~ ~eq~rtoI~ ~ L~e, ~uoject:J~ette alse~ Elm Bm~ce, St~ 2.. .................................

6 24 25

BE IT REMEMBERED THAT, the depositio~ of TERESA KIM ~E was taken at the time and place and with the appearances of cc~sel hereirC~efore noted, before Christine O. Lively, a Notary Public for the State of Montana. 6 The followir~j proceedings were had: 7 TERESA KIM LANGE, a witness, after having be~n first duly sworn, testified 8 9 upon her oath as follows: 10 EXAMINATION 11 BY MR. CAVA~,: 12 Q. Would you pl~se state your full n~me for the 13 record. 14 A. Tere~ Kim L~nge. And what do you 9o by?. 15 Q. 16 A. Kim. 17 Q. Is it okay if I call y~u Kim here this ~rning? 18 A. Yes, pl~se do. Q. 19 Kim, have you ever had your deFx~sition taken 2O before? Years and years ago, I had a deposition taken. 21 A. 22 Q. So yc~J're somewhat familiar with the procedure that we're going to 9o through here this morning? " 24 A. Some~hBt, yes. 25 Q. I imagine that you've also had the opvortunity to 1 2 3 4

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speak with Mr. Black about the procedure that we're going to go through this morning? A. Yes. Q. There's just a couple things I would like to 4 remind you of before we start. The most important thing 6 t~at we can do today is, of course, coQmunicate very clearly with each other. And I'll try to keep my ? questions as clear and concise as I ca~, but I'm not 9 often able to do that. So if at any time I ask you any ' 10 question that's at all unclear, you don~t understand something I've said, please ask me to clarify it and I 11 12 would be happy to do that, okay?. 13 A. Okay. 14 Q. Where were you born? A. In Missoula, Mc~tana. ~ were you raised in that area as well? 16 Q. 17 A. Yes, I was raised around Western Montana. 18 Q. Okay. ~ don't you give me a brief history, 19 then, of your educatic~al background? A. Graduated fro~ Superior High School, went to ~iverslty in Miss~la for ab~t a year and a half. Q. Vnat did you stud,/ at the university? A. Speech pathology. 24 Q. A~d have you had any formal education after that time? I

Q. What year did you graduate from Superior High School? 4 A. 1974. 5 Q. Why don't you give me, then, kind of a background 6 of your work history since you left the university. Did 7 you go to the university right after high school? Yes. 8 A. You were there for a year and a half? 9 Q. 10 A. Urn-hum. 11 Q. . Why don't you give me a brief background, then, of 12 your work history since that time. 13 A. In '74, I worked -- I contracted with the Forest 14 Service to clean campgrounds and then got picked up by a 15 firm in -- the Forest Service in Idaho to do traffic 16 surveillance, and then got picked up back in Superior on 17 the survey crew and worked there until we moved to 18 Butte, which was 1979.~ Then ! worke~l in a local store 19 that winter and got on with the Forest Service here in 20 1980 and have worked for the Forest Service since then. 21 Q. Okay. One thing I should have mentioned also is the court reporter has a difficult time taking down nonverbal respanses like shrugs of the shoulders ~nd nods of the head. She has also a difficult time taking 24 25 d~ u~ums and uh-huhs and we speak like that all the

I 2

1 2 4

!1 ,..t !5

time and we speak with our hands and our shoulders and n~d all the time so just bear in mind that you have to answer all of my questions verbally and with a yes or ~ or whatever the approgriate. A. Okay. Q. The other thing I should have mentioned, it's difficult for the court reporter to take down our conversation when both of us are talking at the same time. I talk kind of slow so a lot of time, people tend to finish my questions for me, so please try to wait u~til I'm done with my question before you answer, and I'll make sure that you're done with your answer before I ask the next question. If I inadvertently cut you off, please let me know that and I'll allow you to finish your question -- your ~nswer, okay? A. Okay. Q. Getting back then to yc~r work history, it sounds then, it's primarily been involved with the U.S. Forest Service? A. Yes. Q. Aqd at least since 1980 or thereabouts on a permanent basis? A. It.was seasonally-Q. Okay.

A. --when [ had the survey crews. Q. All right. And how long did youwork on the survey crews? 4 A. I would say into the '90s, early '90s. Q. And what type of seasonal work would that be? ~Jould that be primarily during the construction season 7 or w~x~Id it be all in all r~n-winter months or what 8 ~Id your season be? 9 A. Pretty much non-winter. I mean, we did work in 10 the cold if we had a job to finish up.. 11 Q. All right. But you were generally laid off for 12 so~e months during the wintertime? 13 A. Yes, usually three or so. Q. ~hat kind of work ~ould you do on these survey 14 15 crews? 16 A. I was the party chief so I had the resp~ibility 17 of the crew. ~e went out and surveyed the line for road 18 construction generally on recreation or timber sale. ~e 19 were responsible for collecting the information and the~ p~tting it in a format t~at couldbe used in the office. 20 21 Q. For constructic~ projects in the forest? A. To design the project, yes. Q. And how long then were you a party chief on the 24 survey crews? A. Let's see, I started in -- [ think it ~as in 1980 I 2

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I0
until probably early '90s. Q. Did y~u have any formal training or education in survey or was it more on-the-job training? tt was on-the-job training. A. Did they send you to any particular schools or 5 Q. training or was it just going out with the survey crews 6 and learning the skills of the trade? A. There was some training but it was generally on how to use a piece of equipoent, or there wasn't ~Jch I0 training, it was more on'the°jobo 11 Qo What, from the early '80s then to the early ~90s, what was your grade7 13 A. I think when I ca~e here, I had either a aS-4 or a 14 GS-5 and then ~orked my way qo to a GS-7. 15 Q. Were you a GS-7 while y~J were still in survey? 16 A. Yes. 17 Q. When did you -- at some point in time, did you 18 leave the survey position? 19 A. Yes, ! became more of an office job. Q. Okay. ~ when did that occur? 21 A. I would have to look at my-Q. I'll help you out. A. --my personnel history. And see if this sounds about right. In June of 24 Q.

I 2 3 4 5 6 7

25

you applied for and became a civil engineering

9 10 11 12 13 job. 14 Q. Okay. So you would get the survey from the surve 15 crew and you would actually design the road in the 16 forest? 17 A. Right. 18 Q. And then you would put tc~jether a contract to 19 build the road? Yes, I helped with those duties. 20 A. 21 Q. And those are the duties of the civil engineering 22 technician? Z~ A. That and other. I would have to read the PD again 24 but-25 O. And I understand that but just -- I'm just trying ;47

technician? A. Okay, yes. Would that be about right? Q. A. (Witness indicates yes.) Q. And that is different from the surveying technician? A. Yes. Q. Why don't you tell me then what a civil engineering technician does? A. We were res~:w:nsible for actually doing the r~d design or the project design, putting a contract together, It was just more technical aspects of the

11

12

I 3 4 6 B 9 10 11 12 13 14 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

to get a general feel from you of ~/nat you feel that the duties and resp~sibilities of a civil engineering technician are and maybe you can cover those a little more in depth. A. Well, it would del~end on what grade level you are Q. Okay. At the time you became a civil engineering technician, you were a GS-7? A. I believe ~hen I applied for that job, I got it at a 7 level. Q. Then.why don't you tell me w~at the duties and respensibilities are that you performed as a GS-7 as a civil engineering technician. A. Well, the ones I mentioned before. Q. Okay. A. And I went out on the projects with my boss at the time, George Nolle, or the line above him was Rich Hollamon. Q. Okay. And ~ould do what, when you would go out on the jobs? A. They were kind of shoving me the duties of inspection. Q. Okay. ~ what is the -- ~h~t are the duties of inspect i on? A. They're on a delegated form. Basically, they're

I 2 3 4 5

B 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 18 19 20 21 23 24 25
~547

to make sure that the contractor is adhering to the specifications of the (:ontract. Q. All right. Is that a sL~oarate desig~tion from the ~vil ~gineerin~ te~ici~ to ~co~ an ins~ctor or is that in~lud~ within t~t ~siti~? A. ~t all -- I w~l~t ~y all civil ~gineering te~nici~s ~come ins~ctors. Q. Did you ~ve to ~ss s~ t~ of a certi~i~ti~ to bec~e an inspector? A. Yes. Q. ~d ~at's t~t A. It's catl~ -- well, it's ~ ins~ctor cert ifi cation. Q. ~d did ~u ~c~ ins~ctor certifi~? A. Yes, I did. Q. ~d ~ was t~t? A. Ninete~ -- let's s~, ~ w~Id ~ve to [~k at s~ rEords. O. ~d that's fine. ~ ~e you ~n clarify s~thing for ~. I read a lot a~t the COR certification, a~ is an ins~c~or dif/er~I from the COR certification? A. Yes, it O. fr~ the records I ~ve, it ap~rs that y~ ~ C~ certi(i~ a~ut in ~y of I~7. ~s t~%

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13 s~und about right? It sounds right. A. Q. All right. /~nd then -- k~Jt at sc~netime prior to t~t, y~ ~ ~c~ ins~ctor terrifiC? A. Yes. Q. ~ ~ y~ ~ve any id~ of ~w lo~ before that y~ were fns~ctor cert~f~? A. ~ ~Id ~y thr~ or f~r y~rs pr~bly. Q. Art ri~t. ~at t~ of a p~c~ure did y~ ~ve to go throb to ~c~ inspector cert~f~? A. Y~ get a ~rk~k ~ ~ ~rk thr~h the pr~l~ in the ~rk~k. A~ th~ ~ take a writt~ test. It's a four-~r test. A~ ~f you ~ss t~t test, th~ y~ go to ~ orals ~rd a~ the oral th~ determines ~ether ~ey ~nt to certify y~ or Q, ~ thi= is for ins~ctor? A. Right. Q. [s this so~thi~ t~t y~ desir~ to ~, did y~ ~nt to ~ an ins~ctor or was this s~thing t~t ~s r~ir~ of ~ for this A. I ~s .told ~at tests to take. I just -assu~ ~t was part of the j~. Q. Okay. So gett~ ~ck to ~ q~esti~, ~ guess, was it s~thi~ t~t, a certif~t~ t~t y~ des~r~ to attain or was this so~th~ ~t y~ were direct~

14 I 2 3 4 6 ?
to do? I was directed to do it. A. Q. And ~e'll just use, say, the 1993 or 1994 or thereabouts, when you became an inspector, did that involve the~ a large part of your duties? A. Yes, especially during the construction season. Q. ~o ~ w~Jld, in your job as a civil engineering technician, w~uld do road design?

4 6 ? 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

9 10 O. You would put together the c~tracts for the road construction project? 11 12 Yes, ~ halped do that. And would y~ do that in conjunction with s~meboc 13 14 else? 15 A. 16 Q. And who would that be? 17 A. Usually, the office, Beorge Nol~e, Rich Hollamon, 19 2O 21 23 24
u/~ver h,~e~L~d to be working on that project. Q. [ see, So y~ alone wouldn't be responsible for the project, a superior in your office would be responsible for the project? A. Right. Q. And you would just assist that person with road design?

A. Right.

15 Q. And assist that person with putting together the ccntract? A. Right. Q. Under their supervision? A. Correct. Q. Then when the contracts that you put together in the office were in the constructicn phase, you were an inspector? A. Right. Q. And you wou~d go out and you would look over the project ~nd hake sure that it was being built in conformance with the contract? A. Right. Q. AI( right. A~y, other duties that you did -- and ~et's ta~e it prior tO 1997, any other duties that you perfoPmed as a civil engineering technician? A. Not that co~s to mind right now. That was basically the job. Q. All right. Did -- again, did you have any special training in the engineering field?. Q. A~d all the training that you received then was on-the'jdo training? A. On-the-jcb training, and they did send us to sc~e c~asses periodically. Like ~e would go to, it ~as

16

I 2 4 6 7

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 21 Z3

usually a two- or three-day class where we talked about contracts and ~hat an inspector or a ~OR's duties ~re, that type of thing. Q. Let's talk about the ~OR certification for a little bit. As I understarw~, that stands for Contract ing Officer's Representative? A. Correct. Q. Why don't you explain that to me a litt[e bit, what the (~JtieS ar, J responsibilities of the COR are? A. ,Once again, those are spelled out of~ the designation form. It's a little more duties than ~hat the inspector has. The COR is resFx)nsibte for issuing st~ work orders if there happens to be a safety issue on the They work thrcxx3h change orders, mc~ey situations, and the~ take that information to the CO, who is the deciding official en it. But the COR is the on-the-ground liaison. Q. I see. So the hierarchy then, there would be an OR, or a CO? A. A ¢0. Q. Which ws~Jld be the contractirKJ officer? A. Correct. Q. And then there would be the COR ~o would be the next in line?

47

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17

1

4 6 8 9 11 12 13 15 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Correct. Q. And then there would be the inspector who wo~Id beI below the COR? A. Correct. Q. Now, fro~ my records anyway, it appears that you became again certified COR in May of 1997, and that sounds about right? A. Yes. O. Again, explain -- prior to '97, how many COR certified people were there in this forest, the Beaverhead-Oeerlodge Forest that ycu know of? A. Kathy Smith. I d~n't krw~w if Jim Mickel$on Ms here in '97 or not, but he was certified. Dick JLKJge. Let's see, Rich ~,olla~'~l was still here fn '97, ~ believe. That's all I can think of off the top of my Were you stationed in Butte? Q. A. Yes. Q. Who all was in the Butte office? ' A. In 1997?. Q. Right. Let's take it fr~ '9~ when you becatae the civil engineering technician up to '97 when you became the A. We went through a downsizing period, so the office early on had more engineering pt~gle than it did in the

1

7 8 9 10 11 12 13 15 16 17 18 t9 2O 21 22 23 24

latter part of that time period. Q. Okay. Arw~ I'll visit with yo~ ~bout that in a little bit here. Give me a rough idea in the early 'gDs, then, how many people you had in engineering here in Butte and then how many you had in '97?. A. Let's see, we ~ Ed Kelly, Tim John~n, George Nolle, Rich Hollamon, Norm Ward, Lloyd Laughery, myself, Betsy Follman, Dawn Clark. I think that was on our end of the forest, when we were still the Oeerlod~e, which would have been that early peri~x~. Q. And then as ! understan~ it, sometime in the mid-'9Os, the two forests, Oeerlodge ar~:( the 6eaverhead Forest moved, consolidated? A. Yes. O. t4ere there more ef~Jinee~ing folks here in Butte after the merger in the A. Can you rephrase the question? I dc~l't tmderstand the question. Q. Okay. And it was a bad question. Yc~J named off the people I understand that were in the of/ice in the, ear ly ' A. Right. O. And then in the mid-'9Os, there was a merger between the two forests; is that correct? A. Right,

;47

19 Q. Were there more e~gineering pe(~ole after the consolidation here in Butte? 3 A. No. 4 Q. Did that start then the reductic~ in force here in the Forest Service in Butte in the engineering departmant? 7 A. It actually started before the co(nbiration. 8 Q. Okay. Why d~n't you tell me thef~ in '97, ~ was here in the engi~eerfr~j department? 1o A. Ratty Scott, myself, Rich Holla~on, the ro~d cr~w 11 fellous. That would have been Bill Rauch and probably 12 three or four part-time or se~nal folks. 13 Q. And you recall the people in this office or in 14 this area that were COR certified in '97 were Miss 15 Smith? 16 A. No, Kathy works on the Dillon end. 17 Q. Okay, she's in Dillon. Dick Judge ~s also in 18 Dillon; is that correct? 19 A. Right. 20 Q. And then Mr. Hollamcn, was he in Butte? 21 A. Yes. 22 Q. Now, explain the procedure to me for beccx~ing COR 23 certified. 24 A. Once again, you take a re,Jr-hour w$itten exam ar~l you sit before~als panel.

I

1 2 3 4 6 8 10 11 12 13 14 15 17 18 19 20 21 23 24 25 ;47

20 O. And is there some type of training that yI~Jdo in advance of the exam? A. You have a study guide. Q. How e.xten~ive is that? The study guides? A. Q. (Indicates yes.) A. For the roads atx~ the specialized fields t~t can get certified in such as aggre(jates, surfacing, waste~ater, buildir~js, they're pretty intense arouse a lot of formulas for quantities and that type of issues. Q. Now, I guess ! didn't realize that yo~ apparently can become certified in different areas? A. You get specialized subcategories. Q. I see. A. You become certified as a public works inspector or a p~blic works COR and a timber sales inspector or tidoer sales ER, they call theQ, engineering rep. The other categories, you have to be certified in those in order to take the other categories and those ~re just specialized fields. Q. I see. So you became just certified as a pJblic works COR in '97? A. I believe so, yes. Q. .And then did you becc~e specialized in any'area after that?

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21 A. I can't remember exactly when [ took the courses but ! have aggregate base and surface course I'm certified in. O. ~ese are subcategories of certification? A. Yeah, I think I'm certified in two or three subcategories. Q. Why don't you explain to me aggregate base arwJ surface categories. A. Okay, the aggregate base is whe~ you watlt to put base c~ the road. Instead of having the r~ative surface you want to harden that a bit 'with gravel. Q. Okay. And the base certification? A. The base -- I'm not sure I'm saying these right, but I also got certified in the .asphalt. Q. Would that be the surface? Right. A. Q. So-A. It could be called asphalt. I mean, I can't reme~£)er the subcategory. Q. So there was the base category which was laying do~ a n0n-native surface and then the final surfacing of the rcad also is a different category? A. Yes. Q. How much stud)' is involved to become COR certified as a public works COR? A. Quite a bit of stud),. And also to be -- when you first are becoming inspector certified, you have to pass the p~blic works, but ~ou also have to pass one of the 4 specialized fields. At~d then ~hen you're in engineering, that specialized field is called roads. 6 That's an extremely difficult course. It's very 7 technical, math oriented. Q. How long did it take you to study for the roa(~s 8 9 and the COR $:x~blic works exam? .~hen did y~ start 10 studying for it ~ whe~ did you take the exam? A. They probably gave, I would say four to six week's 12 ti~ frame that the,/would let me study. You know; you 13 might study a couple h~rs a week at work. Generally, 14 ~rost of us tcok it home to study at home. 15 O. So they would give you some ~aterials to study 16 four to six weeks in advance of the exam? 17 A. Yes. O. And you do it a couple of hours at work? 19 A. I would say that's probably an average. 20 Q. A couple hours per w~nat at work? 21 A. I would say per week. And were you a[lotted time to do that at work? O. Yes. A. 24 Were you fr~e to take Whatever time you wanted at O. work to study for the exam? 1 2

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23 A. I wouldn't say you were free to take whatever time you need or wanted. If you had questions, the supervisor would be there to answer them. You still had' your normal workload so it wasn't like you could take an a~ormal a~nt of time to stud),. Q. Were there any restrictions placed upon the amount of time that ~ could devote to study while at work? A. I didn't have any restrictions placed on me. have heard of other people who have been told they need to do both. O. How much time did you spend outside the workplace studying for this exam? A. Several hours. I mean-Q. A~d I know this is difficult, we're talking about several years ago, but can you give me so~e idea in that ~our- to six-week pericd how much time you devoted ~utside of the workplace to study for the exam? Was it a couple hours a week? A. I w~wJld say it was probably -- I usually did it the weekends, usually eight hours a week maybe. Q. You took the exam, you passed it, and in '97, that would have been the public works and the roads? A. Correct. Q. Now, again, was the COR certification something teat you wanted to attain or was this something that yo~

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were directed to do? I was directed to do it. A. O. You didn'~ express any interest in doing that prior to that time? A. Not to ~ krw~wledge. Q. And did it benefit you in any ~ay in your job to be able to do that or for opportunities of ad~ancec~nt in ybur job to be COR certified?. A. I thought it would. Q. Explain that to me. A. It's a higher gra~ed p~sition and so my assumption ms that race I attained it, I would be paid at that grade level. Q. Was thi~ COR training or the COR responsibility something that you did not want? A. I wouldn't say I didn't want them. The)' added a level of stress to the job because you're interacting with the contractor. But I wouldn't say it was s~f~ething that I -- I didn't refuse it. Q. Is that something that you r,~ld have done or do you k~ow? A. I didn't know that I could have done that. I found that out later. Q. Now~ at the ~onclusion of becoming COR certified, you said that you thought that would lead to some sort

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25

26 A. I believe so. Q. If you were not COR certified, would you have eligible for a promotion to a GS-9? 4 A. I have heard, in doing some studies after I got involved in this, that there are some people ~ are at the 9 level and are inspectors, they are not certified. 7 Just looking at the PO, I ~ouldn't h~ve assumed that, but that is the case. 9 Q. In l~king at the -- and the PD is the Position 10 Description; is that correct? 11 A. Correct. 12 Q. In looking at the Position DeScripticn for a 13 it aF~ears to require the COR certi¢icatic~? 14 A. Yes. 15 Q. And so at the ti~e, it~ was your understanding anyway at the time, that ~ would have to obtain the 17 COR certification in order to reach that ne~t level? 18 A. I think if you stayed in the contracting realm, 19 the administration of the contracts, yes. 20 Q. After you became COR certified in ~97, were you 21 given COR assignments? 22 A. Yes. Q. And did you want those assignments, did you 24 request those assignments, or were they just simply assigned to you?

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of a promotion? A. Yes. Q. You were at a GS-7 at the A. Yes. Q. A~d what did you think would result from becoming C~ terrifiC? A. ~e COR duties are in the GS-9 Positi~ Descr~pti~, so t~t's w~ ~ ass~tion was. Q. Did you ~ct t~t pr~ti~ to be~e ~ut~ti~ ~ ~pleti~ of y~r COR traini~? A. I di~t k~ ~ ~g~nt w~ld ~dle it. ~se{f a~ ~ o~er- folks t~t were taki~ the traini~ al ~e ti~, we j~t ass~ tha% il they were ~rki~ us in that calcify, they ~uld Q. Did ~ ~ve any discussions with ~g~nt a~t t~t prior to be~i~ terrifiC? Q. Were any r~res~tations ~ to y~ t~t t~t ~[d in fact ~ if y~ ~ COR {erti~i~? A. Other t~n t~ ~ple ~ I ~ t~t were GS-9s were certifi~ in that ar~, ~ n~er ~d ~ sit ~ ~ discuss t~t with me. Q. ~t it ~Id at [east ~ke ~ eligible to pr~t~ to t~t G~-9 ~iti~, if y~ be~e terrifiC?

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A. The),' re assigned. Q. Was it something that you welcomed or something that ~ resisted? A. I did not resist, l'h~t w-as a ~uty tF~at was assigned to me. Q. And did you like that new duty and responsibility? Was that something that you wanted, that )n~u enjoyed or was it something that you did not want? A. It added a Level o~ stress to the job. I ~Idn't say I didn't want it but it ~K~ed a level oI~ stress. Q. ~hat assignments were you given? A. I ha~J s~ mining refaction assignments and I had a road dec~missioning assigrv~nt. Q. Let's take them one at a ti~e, There is sc~e mining reclamation assignments. And again, maybe I could help you out a little bi~. I kr~w this was a lon~. time ago. According to the records I've been given, there was a Homestake ~oyote Flats mine rec[am~tiom project? A, Correct. And that was in July oi '98? Q. A. I believe so. Would that have been the first COR assignment that Q. LaBelle Gulch. I'm not sure. O. Tell me first, then, abuu~ the Homestake One, what was that all about? What kind of a project ~as it? A. I believe it was, you know, there was an e~isting mine hole out there that we needed to fill in for public safety. Q. A~d ~o assigned you as COR cn that project? A. ! believe Laurie Hairs did. I would have to look 9 at my designation. 10 g. That's kind of a new name for me, Laurie Hamers. 11 A. Right. 12 Q. Can you spell that? 13 A. Spell it? 14 Q. Spell the last name. 15 A. H-A-M-E-R-S, ~ think. 16 Q. All right. Where was she at? She wasn't from the B Bar O. I believe at that 17 A. 18 time, Laurie was on the Helena, I think, but the CO 19 aspect of the job was kind of spread. {Ve ~rked for 20 her, we worked for Bill Pfeifer ~ was in Bozefnan. And then we worked for the CO that was in 21 Beaverheed- Deer lodge. Q. And can you give me some idea of the con~lexity that particular project? A. It wasn't a real cof~ple× project.

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yo~ received?
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A. I don't k~ow if that was the first c~e or if

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basically making sure that the hole was filled in and in a safe manner. Q. Are there differe~t levels of complexity involved in COR duties7 A. Therens different Levels in the contract itself, YOU kn~, you'LL have a multi-million dollar contract. 6 7 Usually, that's in a higher, Like defense or somewhere Like that. SO it depends on the work required, the cmpLexity of the job, 9 10 Q. SO there's some COR assignments, ! imagine, that 11 would be relatively simple? 12 A. Correct. 13 Q. A~d some within your office that would be very 14 complex? 15 A. Right. 16 Q. And would you classify this Homestake Coyote Flats 17 project as a relatively simple project? 18 A. Yes. 19 Q. And do you kr~w how much time you devoted to those COR duties on that project? I had an inspector that Worked for me on that. I ~.1 A. don't -- I couldn't tell you how many hours the project took. Q. You're talking to $c~ebody that r~Bn't ~ ImJch math, much tess engineering, and so I'm trying to get-"

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MR. BLAO(: Do you Want a calculator? Q. (By Hr. Cave) I'm just trying to get some idea of h~ much li~ so ~ p ~ve a reta~ive[~ ~i~[e mini~ re{~li~ proje¢~ Like this, are we talking that this ~thing you ~td de,re s~thing that ~ w~td d~ote several w~ks to? Give ~ a bro~ g~eralizati~ like A, ~ a sidle fill in a ~le t~e thi~ ~etimes the c~tr~ctor c~Id get ~ ~ere a~ get ~t ~e in a ~y or t~. ~ere's the aspects ol the before y~ actually get ~ the g~ with the c~tractor t~t takes so~ ti~ ~ th~ ~tever ti~ it takes for the c~tractor to get the job ~ne. Q, Okay. A. ~e sidle ~es ~uLd ~ve las~ a few ~ys, Q. ALL ri~t. OkBy. Tell ~ a~ut the next ~ t~t y~ ~ re~ll t~t y~ were assign~ to. A. ~ere ~ -- I think t~re was ~e ~ll~ t~ Fire L~ne ~elhi~, Q. AIL ri~t. I ~ve a note t~t y~ ~rk~ ~ one ~II~ th~ Haystack ~it Recla~ti~ P~ject. ~ ~t that A, ~ere were s~eroL -- ~ think there ~s thr~ actual sites ~ the ~e c~trBct.

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32 1 2 3 4 6 7 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23
Q. Wh~ -- who assigned you to that particular proj ect, do you remed~er? A. I think that was Laurie I believe. Q. Laurie? A. Hamers. Q. Okay. Another one I have that you ~x~rked o~ was the LaMarche Poly Road Contract? Right. A. Q. And that was in September of 2(3(30, a coL~ple years Later,? A. I believe Q. And who assigned you to A. I believe it was Mike BLinn. Q. ' Mike Blinn. And where is Mike from? A. He works out of the Dillon 6ffice. Q. And what was the nature of that project? A. It had been -- there h~d been a timber sale up there and a road was const~cted to that sale. Part of the road was F~t in, probably in error. It went across a wet area. We wanted to deco~m~ission that road. And the wet area was p~rticularly e~hasized, in that We didn't want to add any more sedir,"ant to the creek. There was fish issues. Q. So how much road are you rerouting here? Is that what you did?
tlIYNIzFI I~ LEVI::I.,Y RI::Hf.IRIII'I~; i~UI II'-, MI 4,Li~-4V4.-4,/55

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! ) I i

Q. For which one? A. I think it was Haystack. Q. How ab~Jt Haystack, LaBeLLe Gulch-A. Right. Q. --Heights S~aft, was that all one project? A. Yeah, it was one contract. The projects were Located in different spots. Q. And this was another mining reclamation project? A, Yes. Q, And that would have bee~ in September of '98. Does that sound about right? A. ! believe so. I would have to Look at ~ folder. Q. And what were the nature of those particular proj eels? A. Those were similar. There were holes, mining shafts out there that were created, and it was public safety. I think we fenre~ one to kelp the public out of it, took down structures that were -- wooden structures that could fail and fall on people so-Q. And other than that, fill in the hole on the projects?

A. Right.
Q. Again, vo~Id you classify this as a relatively simple project? A. Yes.

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33 1 2 4 5 6 N~, we didn't reroute. We just dec~issioned, ~hi ch is actually F~lling the roadbed up, reseeding. Q. I see. So it's taking the ~Inole road out? A. Right. Q. ~d haw much road are we talkir~g about? A. I w¢~Jld have to look at the contract. I don't re~ember wi~at the-Q. Approximately. A. A mile. I don't re~ber exact footage. Q. In September of 2(](](], do you recall ~ahat your position was in the office here at that A. I was a civil engineering tech. Q. And the reason I ask you, at some point in time, did y~ fill in for Diane Johnston, ~ahen she was out of the office? And I guess the records of When that project was let or when you worked on it and when Oiane Jchnston was gone wcx~Id verify that? A. Correct. Q. Okay. What would you describ~ as the co~plexity 6 on that project? How would you rate that one? 7 A. It was more ccmlplex than the closing of the mine 8 Q. Sti.ll relativelynon-co~Dlex? 9 A. Yeah, I would say that. 10 Q. I have a gap then between S~t~nber of '98 and Septe~}er of 2(](]0 for COR assignments, Do you recall 11 12 ~y other assignments during that period fro~ September 13 of '98 for the Latlar~e project in Septe~)er of 2000? 14 A. I w~uld have to look. I had a chronological 15 order, and I'm sure it's in so, of this poperwork of 16 the projects that i had don~. I Would have to look at 17 that. 18 Q. Do you recall how many others you were assigned 19 to, other tha~ those three? No, I'm sorry, I would have to look. 20 A. 21 (Wher~pon, a brief discussion was held off the record.) 23 Q. (By Mr. Cavan) In any event, you pu~ fox, ether 24 s~x~e typ~ of a list of all the COR assign~t~ that were 25 given to you betwee~ '97 and the time that your COR

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I0
11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 23 24 25

A.

Yes.

Q. A~d you were temporarily prommted to a higher position? A. Yes. Q. Do you re~wber when that was? A. It ~ the fall o'~ 2000. g. Would it have be~ at the same time then as this La~larche Poly Road project? I believe that project was done earlier in the A. ¯ summer but I couldn't swear to that.

35 I 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 23 24
duties were re~ved? A. Yes, I did. Q. But you don't recall how many were on that particular list? '"

2 3 4

A.

No.

2

(Whereupon~ a brief discussion was held off the r~cord.) Q. (By Mr. Cavan) We've had some discussion off the record and we're looking for this list that was developed at sc~me time. But you do have one doc~m~'nt in front of you that apparently has another jc~? A. Yeah, in 1999, I was {OR on the South Deerlodge CMP Rc~d Obliteration project, which I think I mistakenly told youwas the L~Belle Gulch, or the L~flarr~e Poly Road Obliteration dealing with the culvert that was -- had to be taken out. Q. Okay. A. The fish issues. Q. So in '99, okay, that's the South Deerlodge CMP and RoBd (~oliteration Project? A. Correct. Q. And that's the one we just talked about ~here you took the ro~d out. And then in 2(]CX], you were assigned the La~larche Poly Road Obliteratic~ Project ~ tF~t was yet Bgain another roBd obliteration?

6 7 8 9 10 11 Q. So from ~/nat we can recall today anyway, you had 12 the two projects in 1998, the mining reclamation 13 projects, right? 14 A. ~orrect. 15 Q. Then you had the road project in 1999? 16 A. Correct. 17 Q. Then another road obliteration project in 2(](](]? 18 A. Correct. 19 Q. And that's all you can recall at the present time 21
as far as COR assignments are concerned? MR. BLACK: ~ell, for the record, I'm going to object that the official records of the Forest Service should reflect these particular jd~s and they would be the best evidence of ~at she performed, not her recollection years after the fact.

A. Correct. Q. ~u~d of the same type as the Sout/~ Oeerlcx~ge project? A. Yes, I believe this one had -- was a lo~ger f~otage-wise project but it's similar, yes. And Bgain, relatively non-conplex? A. I would categorize it as that. Q. Any others that you can recall then after A. Not that I can recall unless ! could see that

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37 Q. THE WITNESS: I would have to have that list. (By Mr. Cavan) Okay. But as.you sit here today,

38 1
Q. And how much time would be devoted to something Like that? A. It would depend on the contract. I coul~'t tell Q. Let's just take th~ one at a ti~ t~n ~ck to the first mine recla~ti~ p~ject t~t we re~l(, the ~stake ~te Flats project. ~ I ~y ~ve ask~ y~ this ~fore, ~t ~ ~ time ~s devot~ to A. ~is folder in fret of me. Q. Sure. A. ~ think it ~s a fairly ~ort project. I ~{d ~y a few Q. Okay. ~e next mine recta~ti~project y~ h~ ~s t~ ~ystack, ~Bette Gulch, et cptera. ~ ~ch ti~ v~ ~vot~ as COR to t~t project? A. Ea~ ~e of those ~its pr~ty t~k t~ or thr~ ~ys, ~ ~tw~ t~ thr~ of the, I ~uld ~y a week, w~k a~ a half. Q. ~ in '~ with the r~ ~literati~ p~ject, ~ ~ch time ~s sp~t as COn ~ that project? A. ] think they were ~t there several ~eeks, ~y~ ~th, ~th ~ a half. I ~'t re,It the ~ct ti~ fr~e.

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9 10 11 12 13 Q. i 14 15 A. 16 Q.

you don't recall: any others? A. When D.J. was gone, I had some COR duties on her projects but I ~ould have to look at the list. I can't re~all then. Q. Can you give us some estimate of how much time was sF~t on these COR duties versus your other duties as a ¢ivi I ~gineering technician? A. when the contract's act~lly oncjoing, probably 80 perce~t of the ti~w~ was spent administering it. YOU have to be out there on the grc~Jrw~ watching what's goi~

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And at other times, would be none, I would assu~el If the contractor isn't out there on the ground? Right. You have sc~ office issues that you work.with, A. but itrs not BO percent of the time. Q. Okay. What issues do you deal with as a COn when you' re not out there on the construction site? A. Oft~times, the cqntract requires certain items to be provided by the contractor and tht~/ st~d yc~J in a list of what they're providing ar~ you have to go through Bnd make sure that those items are c(~q~atible with what the specs specify.

Q. /~nd did the ti~ that they were cut there, how much of that -- you wouldn't be on-site all the time, assume, as a ~OR? A. ~t depends. You don't always have ~n imapector assigned to you ~o if you don't have eyes out there, then you have to be out there doing it. Q. The entire A. . Not the entire day. Some people did. The workload was too great for us to spend the entire day c~t there. Q. In the '~ road (i~titeration project, did you have B~ inspector? A. I don't believe I did. Q. Would you detail in some fashion in your work records the amount of time that you spent on your COR duties on a project like that? A. We ~ cow, tract daily diaries, which would talk a~c~Jt the time when you arrived at the site ar~ when you left the site. That ~cxJld probably be the closest thing i could-Q. Would they be in the contract folders? A. Yes. Q. Ti~e~l what ab~t the last rc~d c~bliteraticxq project that we recall here tod~y, in 2CX](], ~ you recall how lorK:j that was?

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A. That t~ok, I would s~y, several weeks. Q. And did you have an inspector on that project? A. I think, yes, ~ did. I think D.J. was inspector, I believe. Q. Xu~d we ~[d l~k at, in t~t file folder ~in, it w~ld detail the ~nt of ti~ t~t y~ s~t as ~ t~t p~ject? A. It ~ld detail the ti~ I was ~t ~ the j~, yeS, Q. ~ theft this ti~ peri~ th~ fr~ '~ to 2~, y~ ~uld aL~ ~ ~rformi~ ~he other duti~ t~t ~ previ~sly perfor~ as a civil ~i~ri~ technician? ~. Correct. Q, Old you ever provide ~y t~ of a break~ terms o1 ~rc~t~e of the ti~ t~t y~ devot~ to OR ~ies versus the ti~ t~t y~ devot~ to y~r ~rk for ~it~al civil ~in~r~ tec~ic~ duties? A. ~t that I recall. Q, You never provid~ ~y kind of ~ esti~te of the ~nt of ti~ t~t ~ s~t ~i~ t~t? A. ~ I was ~ Qy Positi~ Oescript~, I ~lieve they ask~ me to break o~ the ti~ fr~es but t~t it was in relati~ to the a~nt of ti~ ~ s~ ~in9 ~gineering ~ties ~ the a~unt of ti~ I sp~t

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41 I
doing lands duties. Q, Oh, A. But that's the only thing I can recall. Q. And I would like to talk to you about that, too. Apparently, there was some division in your workload between Engineering and ~s? A. Correct. Q. What was the breakdown? How much time were you supposed to be devoting to each? A. We h~d set about trying to come up with an equitable a~t. It was very difficult because neither jo~ stopped for the other job to start. I think we finally ended up with six months devoted to each. Q. So roughly half and half? A. Is ~at we ~ere trTir, g to work ~t ~t to be, 7es, O. What were your duties in Lands? ~. Convey~ce. Q. What are Lands, first of all? A. It's the acquisitioa and -- of lands, rights-of-ways. Q. So any transactions involving Forest Service real e~tate? A. Correct. Q. Easements? A. Correct.

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Q. All that type of thing. A~d what was your particular job in that? A. I was the conveyance examine~, so I would look over the deeds to make sure what rights we were acquiring, ~t were ~st~di~ rights. ~d th~

6 t~ether t~ infor~ti~ t~t ~d to ~ to the 7 office. ~ere's a six-~rt folder with sweral 8 ~cu~ts t~t have to be incl~ to ~ to the r~i~l office a~ th~ th~ are the ~es, ~C gives t~ 9 I0 a~rova~, ~i~ a~rova~ o~ the ~rc~se or ~e or 11 ~t~er we're doi~. 12 Q. ~w, y~ m~ti~ before t~t there's a ~iti~ 13 or certifi~ti~ ~ll~ ~in~r's r~resmtative? 14 A. Right. 15 O. Was t~t in ~ecti~ with ~ur duties at 16 or in c~ecti~ with your d~i~s in the ~in~ri~ 17 D~rt~nt? Engi~ering. 18 A. 19 Q. ~at is an ~in~ri~ r~res~tative? It's the person ~o ~ersees the c~tract for 20 A. 21 ti~er sales inst~ of ~blic works. 23 24 25
Q. I s~. ~ there's a C~ certifi~ti~ for ~lic ~rks ~d th~ there's a s~arate certifi~ti~ t~t overs~s ~tracts involvi~ tier ~les? A. ~rrect.

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Q. A~d you became engineering certified, engineering r~presentative certified in May of '99?. A. Yes, it was after the COR so+Q. Were you ever assigned any project as the engimeering r~resentative? A. I think I just inspected. I.don't think I had COR duties assigned to me. Q. All right. But you did con~lete that particular cert i f i cat ion? A. Yes. Q. Again, was that something that you sought to do or is that something that you were assigned to do? A. I was assigned. Q. Is it something that you did not want to do or sc~nething that you desired to do? A. It was assigned. I just thought it was part of the job. I didn't have a feeling, you kr~ow, that I cculd say no or-Q. Did that make you -- like the COR certification, did that make you eligible for a higher grade? A. You /(now, the only thing in ~he PO that I can r~e~ber is listed as COR. I'm not sure if ER is listed in there. It's the same grade of work so I v~Id assum~ an ER would p~t you in that same P0 classification. Q. So engineering representatives are generally

I 2 3 4 6 7 B 9 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 19

GS-gs? A. I believe so. Q. How many engineering representatives were there in the Iorest in '99 when you completed yours? A. I believe Kathy smith and ff Rich vas sti/.~ there. f think Rich retired. Q. Rich? A. Holl~mon. Q. Hollamon. In '99 I think he was. Dick Judge I assume is. A. I believe that was it. Q. And after you ¢(~npleted the certification, you ~ust never were assigned that duty? A. It's very difficult to get a timber sale to the point where y~u actually have a contract. So yeah, not to my k~owledge. I can't remember being assi~ed those duties. Q. Is that also scw~ething that took a lot of time and study on your part? A. Yes, it was -- it's approximately the same. The ~est is a four-hour written test. Q. So you were given the materials four to six weeks in advance ol the test? A. Yes. Q. Study materials?

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Yes. A. Q. Were you allotted time at work to study?. Yes, similar to the COR. A, Q. And did you also again have to devote some time . outside of work to study? Yes. A. Q. And about the same amount of time as COR? A. I would say it's aF~oroximateLy the same. Q. Now, after receiving your COR certification, did you feel that you were performing work above a GSo7 level ? A. Yes. Q. And did that feeling arise o~ your part right after cocp{etincj the COR certification? A. I would say that probably arose when I was doing the duties. Q. Okay. So in -" as of 1999 -- excuse me, 1998 ~hen you got your first two COR assignments, you felt that you were doing work of a GS-9? A, Correct. Th~ the forest f~ew a job. It's a civil engineering technician in the Minerals arena of the organization. Ar~J when th~ flew that job, the outreach stated-Q. Excuse me, I d~'t understarw~ the vernacular, "flew the job"?

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A. When they advertised the job. O. Okay. The outreach, which is an internal l~efore you A. actually put the job on the market, they want to see the internal interest. The {xJtreach stated that the position was a 7/9, the 9 being dependent on becoming COR certified. So the gentleman that applied for that job arw~ got it then tcx~k the COR certification within a short period of time after he received the job and was given the GS-9. ~ to my kn~Ladge, Rand), didn't have any COR duties for at least the following year. Q. Okay. Who are we talking about here? A. Randy Scott. Q. And when did this position become available? A. Let's see, I believe it was in 2(~(](]. Was this after your COR duties were removed? Q, ~ believe it was. I believe we were in A. discussions at that time. Q. WeJll get to that in a little bit here. But getting b~ck to '98 when you were doirx3 COR work, at lea,st the projects we talked about, did you feel that you were performing work above your grade? A. Yes, Q. Did you talk to anyf:~x~y ab~t that? A. I talked to D.J., ~ boss.

47 And what was your discussion? Q. A. D, Jo agreed and she was going to take it up with line management. Q. A~d this is back in '98? A. i think we first started discussingit in yes. Q, Is there some type of a procedure that )n:u can go through to request a reclassification of your position? A. I think you can ask for a desk audit. Q. What's that? A. S~me~ne cows in and you go through your work and then the,/ classify that out, those duties. O. Did you request a desk audit? A. No. Q. Was that available to you? A. I believe it's available to everybody. Q. Did you discuss it with anyone in '98 and '99 other than with O.J.? A. I ~ a ~eeting with the ELP£}. I ~k)n't re~nber the date of that. Dick Judge was there, Rand'/, Kathy ' smith, Cathy Speich, myself. I believe that's all that were there, Randy Scott and Kathy Smith had been in the office one day and we were talking ab~t doing these duties and not being compensated for it, And we wondered how to

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B 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 2O 21 22 23 24 A. I talked ai:x~Jt that. Jim I~ickels~, I believe, 25 brought up the fact that there wasn't any sFx~t on the ;47

bring. !t up to management and there was so~e uneasiness of bringing it up. And so I said I Would do so in my union role. I felt that might protect me a bit more than bringing it up just as an employee. Q. Now, is this before there submitting these reclassifications when Ervin Brooks came on? A. Yes. Q. Okay. Tell me about that. So you had these conversations within your office here in Butte and you volunteered as -- to apgroach management about this? Yes. A. Q. And did you do that? A. Yes, I did. Q. And you had a meeting with who? A. Jim Mickelson, Dick Judge, Cathy speich, Kathy Smith, RBr~ and myself I think were in attendance. Q. And what was discussed? A. I brought up the fact that we were bei~ worked outside our Position Descriptions. Q. And specifically with the A, Correct. okay. And wha't did you tell them, just that? Q.

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49
organization fJ~art to m~ve people up. And I told the group that they ~Jld probably be getting r~uests for ~sk a~its if the sit~ti~ stay~ I~I ~y. Q. ~d ~s that -- ~hi~ else? A. ~hi~ else in r~rds ~o-Q. Discuss~ r~rding ~rking over y~r gr~e or ~ing ~t~ for the ~rk I~I ~ were ~i~ or ~ve y~ ~er~ t~t? A. ~at was ~t the ~ti~ ~tail~. Q. ~d ~Bt was their res~se? A. Jim Mickel~ ~ verbally a~. His chin ~k. ~ Dick J~e just stat~ t~t t~se ~ties ~Id be r~v~. Q. All ri~t. Is t~re-- in f~eral ~lo~t, there ~ c~cern a~t k~pi~ ~t~ees within .~eir j~ descrip%i~s? A. ~a%'s a r~ir~nt, I~t y~ ~rk your per~n within the j~ descripti~ .duties. With %~t's a r~l ~rd Ihi~ to ~intain. Q. Okay. ~, ~t I~ it c~s to a su~isor's att~tion that s~ i~ worki~ a~e their gr~e, it their res~ibility to ~ke ~re t~t that doesn't ~, t~t they ~rk within their g~e? A. It's their res~sibility to take ~re of the ~ituation. ~ th~ ~se to do that is either thr~ ~47 accretion of duties or referral of the grade controlling dut i es. Q. I~ve read that term a few times in going over the file. Maybe you c~n e:q~lain that to me, this accretion of duties? A. Accretion of duties is iust when, through time, yo~'re doing duties outside your Position Description. Q. And ~hat hapg~ns the? A. Then the manage~t -- it gets classified. Man~ge~nt.__then decides -o has the option to decide if they want to re~ve those duties or if they ~vant to accrete the person. Q. Okay. So when you had this meeting with Mickelso~ and Judge prior to this reclassification and explained to them that you're working above'your grade duties, Pick Judge is responsible and said, "~e are going to remove those duties above your classification"? A. Yes, I believe it was Dick. Q. Okay. Is that something appropriate for management to do in that situation or not? A. Management needs to look ~t that and abide by all the current laws that they're governed by and then they can make the decision. Q. But if they are working around, above the grade of the employee, is it management's option then to ref~ove

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2~

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MR. BLACK: I don~t mean to jump in, but I think that wc~Jld maybe help things out. MR. CAVAN: That will help a lot. (~. (By Mr. Cava~) Were you ever assigned any COR duties, to your knowledge, after February of 2000?. 6 A. Yes. 7 Q. When was that? I'm sorry, let me help you out. 8 That would be the road project in September of 2C00. 9 A. The LaMarche Poly Rc~d Obliteration? 10 Q. Right. ~Jould that be correct? 11 A. I believe so. 12 Q. Any others that you can recall? I believe I had duties in 2(](]0 -- no, that might 13 A. 14 have been the last one. 15 Q. And again, do you recall if that project, the 16 LaMarche Poly project took place while you were 17 te~x)rarily profaoted to a GS-9 while Miss Johnston was 1B away from her station here? I believe it hapgen~d e~rlier in the surlier. 19 A. 20 Q. Did you have any other discussion with managefnent, 21 other than your discussions with Miss Johnston and this 22 meeting that took place in February of 2000 about the 23 fact that you were perforBing work above your grade? 24 A. Not that ~ recall. Q. Now, as I understand it~ then, there Was so~e type

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those duties that are above the grade? A. If they do-MR. BLACK: I'm going to object. The questic~ hes been asked ar~l answered. But one more time. Q. (By Mr. Cavan) Go ahead. A. If they do it within the regulations that they~r~ -- and the rules that are set out for them to do that. Q. Well, what rules govern that? You're going to have to explain. A. The Master Agreement governs it. The Merit Promotion Plan governs it, the Equal Pay Act. All that should be taken into ~c~sideration when those decisions are m~de. Q. I see. Okay. Now, after having this meeting -- and do you recall the y~ar that this happened, that this took place? A. I would have to look at m~ n~tes. Do you have those notes available? MR. BLACK: Can I help? MR. CAVAN: Sure, you bet. MR. BLACK: February of 2000. THE WITNESS: Okay, February of MR. BLACK: Tim, That's referred to in the discovery responses as well. MR. CAVA~I: Okay.

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54 anyway, in June of A. I believe so. Q. And this was in response to his re~FJest? A. It was in response to P.J. having taken the issue to him. And then he said anytx~dy that feels they're not working within their PD, ~0 percent accuracy, should submit. 7 Q. And tell me your understanding about h~ that all transpired between D.J. ancl Mr. Brooks. 9 I0 A. After our discussions with D.J. and actually, I 11 think D.J., when she was workitx3 with us, brought it up, 12 that she felt Rano~ and I were both working above our current Position Descriptions end that she was taking 13 14 that to Ervin Brosks and discussing that issue with him. 15 Q. And she did that? 16 A. Yes, she did. 17 Q. And in resF~se to that, he invi~t-d 18 rec lassi fi cat ion? 19 A. That was my understarKJing. 20 Q. In any event, you did? A. Right. 22 Q. And you prepared a Position Description of the 23 duties that you were performing?. 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. How did you go about doing that?

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}(YNP..N & L.i, VI::LY ~l¢~'f~lJ]'t~;"'b~J|lE,, MI ~ ....

$5 A. SBt down with existing PDs, took what my workload was, incorporated that. I then t~c~( it to D.J., had O,J.'s input on it. And I tc~3k it to _my supervisor in the Larx~s arena and had their input on it. Q. So ~ sat down with the existing Position Descriptions and ] assume that would, be for the description for a GS-7 and a GS-9? A. Correct. Qo Ar~J you used portions of the existing description for the GS-9 to draft yours? A. Correct. Q. And then you took that Position Description that you prepared and took it to A. Correct. Q. Did she take it to anyone else within Engineering or was she the person that signed off on that? A. I -- to my knowledge, she didn't take it to anyone else. Q. Did she sign off on it in s~me fashion? I'm not sure how these things are su~:~itted. When you take it to her, does she have to say -- sign something that saysi yeah, I've reviewed this and yeeh, it's.accurate end this is ~/nat we would like you to review? A. I don't believe D.J, did that. I think to actually get it reviewed, Ervin had to send in a request 1 2 4 5 6 ? 8 10 11 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 I believe. I'm n~t really sure on that. Q. Did Ervin r~view your Position Description to see if it was accurate or was that I).J.'s resp~sibility )~Jr understandir(j? A. To my understanding, it was D.J's responsibility. Q, In any event, it was sent in? A. Correct. Q. And there was so~e, as I understand it, delay in responding to the request for reclassifisatio~? A. The Master Agreement has a time frame for the bargaining unit eq~loyees and that came and vent. So we gave them a two-week extension. And tJ~at carae and wenl also. And that's when I filed a grievance. Q. An(:{, but then the reclassificatj~x~ wes issued shortly thereafter? A. Yes. Q. And in that reclassifisatien, they found that you were performing work as a GS-9?. A. Yes. Q. And determined in there, as I recall, that the duties that you were performing were grade controlling? A. Correct. Q. And my ur~/erstanding of that is that means that because you were doing those COR duties, that's what' bt~nped you up frc¢ a GS-7 to a GS-9?

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Ao That was my understanding. Q. {Jas there anything else a~x~t the Position Description that you submitted other than your COR duties that elevated you to a GS-9? A. I don~t believe so. Q. A~d so from the Personnel Office in the Forest Service, they did the position -- they did the reclassification? A. lhey classified the position, yes. Q. SO they gave the option to the management here in the forest to either promote you to the GS-9 or to redistribute that for the grade c~trolling duties? A. That was the direction by Personnel. Q. Now, the classification, according to my notes, was issued on October 3rcl of 20(30. l)~s that sound about right? "' A. I believe so. Q. And then, according to my notes, there was a meeting to discuss the situation on October 19th of 2000? A. Yes. Q. Was that meeting held reasonably promptly or did ~u have so~e disagreement about any delay in determining w/nat to do with your situation? A. It was in the time frame~ I 2 3 4 Q. Okay. That is spelled ou~ in the ~aster Agreen~t, too? A. Well, once you get into a grievance procedure, discussions can take place. It's policy to try and -to solve the situation at the lowest level. Q. Okay. gas there any grievance procedure in effect at that time about whether or not to pronote )~ or ~hether or not to redistribute your grade controlling dut i es? A. &~nat time frame are we talking about? Q. Welre talking between October 3rd and October 19~h. , A. The grievance was already in effect at the October 3rd date. Q. Right. But that grievance didn't pertain to the decision whether or not to pr .~te you or redistribute your, duties; isn't that right? (Whereto)on, a brief recess was taken.) (Where~p~, Deposition E)ohibit Nos. 1 through 5 werel marked for identification.) Q. (By Mr. Cavan) Kim, I should have mentioned at the ~inning of the de~x~sition, any time you want a break, just holler and we can take whatever tirae is necessary~ but hogefully, we'll l:e able to finish up here before noon. But if you need to break in the

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meantime, just let me know. A. Okay, tF~n ks. Q. When we took a Little break, we started discussing the grievance process'that was initiated by you. And I'm handing you what has been marked as Deposition Exhibit NO. I and ask that you='take a minute and take a look at that document and tell me what it is. A. When I filed the grievancel I tried to get ahold of Dick Judge just to give him a heads-up that that's what I was doing.. Q. A~d that's the first me of that particular document? Right. A. Q. Then the other pages are what? A. This is ~ written notice of filing a grievance. Th~n that's the actual grievance that was filed? Q. A. I believe so, yes. Q. And that was submitted, it appears Like, on about S~ote~ioer 20 of A. Yes. Q. And so that was prior to the time that the reclassification was cc~pleted? A. Prior? Q. In fact, one of the issues that you raised in that grievance was that the classification be completed?

A. Correct. Q. So it was prior to the time that the position Was 3 reclassified by Persc~l? 4 A. Correct. Q. As we discussed, it was reclassified on October 3rd ~nd then ~ had a meeting with s~ folks later 6 7 that ~th on Octc~oer 19th? 8 A. I believe so. 9 Q. And you had a meeting to discuss the 10 reclassification issue? 11 A. Yes. 12 Q. A~d w~no was present? 13 A. I believe it was Dick, Lorri Ghormley prcbably. 14 Q. gho was the personnel officer ~/no did the reclassification? 15 16 A. Myself, I think Cathy Frey was there. 17 O. A~d ~A~at took place at the n~=eting? 18 A. Oick outlined his decision to remove the grade 1.9 controlling duties. Q. So he was going to remove those COR duties from 21 your position? 22 A. Correct. To take you back to the duties of a GS-T? Q. 24 A. Correct. 25 Q. And did he tell you ~/ny?

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4 if they had inspectors working under them. 5 I Q" So he wanted more e~I~hasis on m~re inspectors

~ ( wr~u~ more
7I 8I 10 I 11 I A. I wouldn't say that. He just wanted both in the organization.

A. We then began discussions throu~ the union with manager to try and figure {~t t~ ~sis t~t th~ ~e their decisi~ ~. Q. ~d I'm ~Jng you ~at h~ b~ ~rk~ as O~siti~ E~ibit No. 3. W~ld ~ please take a l~k at t~t ~cu~t ~ tell ~ ~t that A. It was a notifi~li~ t~t I int~d~ to file a griev~ce. Q. A grievance in res~e to the decision to r~ve y~r COR ~ies? A. A griev~ce -- it incl~ t~t~ but it ~s BI~ t~t we c~l~'t get the r~i~ -- ~at we were {~ki~ for was like a work£~ a~lysis, ~thi~ to ~se t~ reas~i~ t~t the duties Were r~v~. Was incl~ in Q. ~ y~ were tryi~ to get s~ info~ti~ from ~g~nt a~t the ~rk[~d ~ ~e forest to s~ if y~ ~Id c~test the rea~ for ~t-A. Ri~t. ~e ~sler ~r~= says y~ arbitrary ~d ~prici~s in ~r ~c~sion. We were t~i~ to fi~ Q. ~d did ~, in fact, file a griev~ce after t~t Octo~r 19 m~ti~? A. I ~lieve I did. Q. ~ing you ~hibit ~. 4, ~ please take ~r

And so you were going to retain your duties.as an inspector? Yes, that was my understanding. 12 ~ A. 13 I Q' But not the COR?

14 A. Correct. (
15 16 17 18 And was that decision confirmed in writing to you? I Q" I A. I believe Lorri Ghormley sent out a notification. I Q' I'm handing you what has been marked as Deposition I E~hibit No. 2, and plebe take a Ic~k at that and tell

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A. It's a message from Lorri