Free Supplemental Brief - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM

Document 137-7

Filed 05/28/2008

Page 1 of 8

EXHIBIT E

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM

Document 137-7

Filed 05/28/2008

Page 2 of 8

In The Matter Of:
Alfred Aloisi, et al. v.

The United States

Alfred Louis Aloisi

Vol. 1,january 12, 1998

Bean & Associates, Inc.
Professional Court Reporting Service

500 Marquette, NW, Suite 280, Albuquerque, NM 87102 119 East Marcy, Suite 110, Santa Fe, New Mexico 87501
(800) 669-9492 or (505) 843-9494

Orginal File aI011298.v1, 153 Pages

Min-U.Script~ File ID: 0077805365

Word Index included with this Min-U-Scrpbi

Aled Aloisi, et al v.

Aled Louis Aloisi
Document 137-7
Page 1

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM The United States
(1) (2) (3)

Filed 05/28/2008

VoL 1, of 8 Page 3Januar 12, 1998
Page 2

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

(1) APPEARANCES
(21 For the Plaintifs:
(3) FREEDMAN, LEVY, KROLL & SIMONDS Attorneys at Law
(4) 1050 Conneicut Avenue, Northwest, Suite 825

(4J ALFRED ALOISI, CANDIS ALOISI, DONALD W. GOODMAN, ENERGEL, INC.,
(5) DYNATECH CORPORATION, JAMES KENDLE, an

Washington, D.C. 20036

(6) UBERTY MINING, INC.,

(SJ BY: MR. LAWRENCE G, MCBRIDE
(6) For the Defendant:

f7 Plaintifs,
(11) (12) (13)

(8) vs. No. 95-650L
(9) THE UNITED STATES,

f7 MS. SUSAN V. COOK Attorney at Law
(8) United States Deparment of Justice

(10) Defendant.

Environment & Natural Resources DiVision

DEPOSITION OF ALFRED LOUIS ALOISI January 12, 1998

Washington, D.C. 2000
I (9) 601 Pennsylvania Avenue, Northwest, Room 837 '(10)

(14)

9:10a.m.
625 Silver Avenue, Southwest Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102

(15)
(16)

i Also Present: Tom Ferrero

1(111 Hitton K. Cass
I.(131 (12)

(171 PURSUANT TO THE FEDERAL RULES OF CIVIL PROCEDURE, this deposition was:
(18)

PAGE

(19) TAKEN BY: MS. SUSAN V. COOK ATTORNEY FOR THE DEFENDANT
(201

1(14) LOUIS ALOISI (15) ALFRED INDEX
! (161 Examination by Ms. Cook
,

3

1(171 REPORTER'S CERTIFICATE 148
I (18) WITNESS SIGNATURE/CORRECTION PAGE
1(19)

(21) REPORTED BY: Melissa Correa, RPR, NM CCR #279 Bean & Associates, Inc. Professional Court Reporting Service (22)

150

i (20) EXHIBITS MARKED OR FORMALLY IDENTIFIED

500 Marquette, Northwest, Suite 280
(23) (24)

Albuquerque, New Mexico 87102
5414.2 MEL

(21)21 Map ALL EXHIBITS 3 (22) Map 55
(23) 3

Map 79 RETAINED BY COUNSEL
Page 3

(25)

(24J

(25)

(1J (Exhbit 1 marked for identication.)

(2) ALFRED LOUIS ALOISI,
(3) afer having been fist duly sworn under oath, was (41 questioned and testied as follows:

(SJ EXAMINATION
(81 record?

(6) BY MS. COOK:
f7 Q: Can you give us your fu nae, please, for the

(9) A: Aled Louis Aloisi. (10) Q: Where do you reside?
(111 A: I reside here in Albuquerque on Tramway

Terrace

(12) Court.
(13) Q: How long have you resided in

Albuquerque?

(141 A: Six months,
(15) Q: Before that, where did you live?
(16J A: 1412 Iron Street,

Truth or Consequences, New Mexico.

(171 Q: How long have you lived in New Mexico?

(18) A: 11ee years.
(19) Q: Before tht, where did you live?
(201 A: I lived in Sawyers Bar, Calorni, Roll site,
(21) mi site.

(22) Q: How long did you live there? (23) A: Over the years, five or six years, and i alternated
(24) between a residence we had, an apartment, in

Ashland, Oregon,

(2SJ at 885 Clay Street,

Bean & Associates, Inc., 843-9494

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VoL 1, Januar 12, 1998

Document 137-7
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Aled Aloisi, et al v.
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Page 4 of 8 The United States

(11 some financial problems.

The man's name was Robert Dorn.The
from - I

(1) Q: Into the name of ths company?
(2 A: Yes. We only got so far with that. i put the

(2) firm name was Panagold. He had borrowed some money (3) believe it was Signal Insurace Company of

Engld who received

(3) Roll and the Mounta Laurel into that company. We also put

(4! their funds though the Hong Kong Shangh Ban.And he had And ISJ problems with them, extaneous from our situation.
(6) subsequently we shut down the Double Eagle operation.

(4) a property by the nae of the Big Cli in there and used (5) Liberty as an operations company for permittg exploration,

f7 We then went back in, myself and a man by the name
(S) of Jim Kendle, reclag it and cleang it up in 1983, '84.

(6) tht tye of thg. f7 Q: Wht were the properties encompassed with Liberty
(S) Mie, Inc.? The Eddy Gulch group of clais? One was, right?
(9) A: Well, we operated the Eddy Gulch group of clas

19J We reopened it in 1986. I contracted with a man by the name of
(10) Steve Bennett. Subsequent to tht, a person that worked for us

(10) though(11) Q: The Roll?

(11) in 1982 by the name of Dick Watts becae involved, and also

(12) became involved with Mr. Bennett in some other ventures. He

(13) got hiself into some problems, drg related, in Sacramento, (14) and the mie closed down in 1987, if I'm not mistaken. We Jefferson State Exploration and (1SJ formed a company named
(16) Development, which was our operatig company, which we

(12) A: Yes, which is part of it, though Liberty Mig, And the Roll? (13) Q: Correct.
(14) A: Yes.

(15) Q: And the Mounta Laurel?
(16) A: Yes.

(171 dissolved in November of 1988.And the followig yea, we

(171 Q: Anytg else?
(1S) A: No, i don't th we submitted any other plans,

(IS) formed Liberty Mig. (19) I became involved with a man by the name of Donad
(20) Goodman who has been a very good partner to me. He was in

(19) other than the Eddy Gulch property as Liberty, other plans of
(20) ops.

(21) the - we cal hi the master blaster. He quarries 5 mion
(221 tons of rock a year. That's his trade. He's been doing it for

(21) Q: Why did you want to use Energel, Inc., as a holdig
(22 company?

(23) 40 years.And he and I decided tht we would make the mie a (24) success together with in-house fiancing, which is wht we
(25) proceeded to do unti we were stopped in

(23) A: TIs was Mr. Goodm's idea. He was providig the
(24) fudig, and it was for that reason that we did it.

January of 1990.

(2SJ Q: How much fudig did he provide?
Page 31

Page 29
(11 Q: Okay. Let me stop you here, becaus I need to ask

(1) A: To date or at tht tie?

(2) you some questions.
(3) A: Okay.
(4) Q: What year did you form Uberty Mine?

(2) Q: To date.

(3) A: I believe in excess of $2 mion. His accountat (4) Mion Finelstein is workig those numbers up for you.
(S! Q: In 1989, did he put money into the operation?

(SJ A: 1989.
(61 Q: Was Uberty Mie the fu name or-

(6) A: Absolutely.

f7 A: Uberty Mig, Inc.
(S) Q: SO it was actuy a corporation?

f7 Q: And how much did he put in?
(S) A: I don't know exactly offd.

(9) A: Yes.

(9) Q: Do you have any figures for any of the particula
(10) yeas?

(10) Q: Who did you form it with?

(11) A: Donad Gooan.
(12J Q: Anyone else?

(111 A: We have our ban records.
(1:! Q: I'm sorry?

(13) A: I don't know if Kendle had a stock position or not.
(14) I.know it may have been - mayor may not have been an
(15) involvement with Kendle

(13) A: We have our ban records, and he had his ban
(14) records.
(15) Q: Do you have knowledge sittg here today

Tnickig. I'm not sur on the

as to-

116) corporate s.trctu on tht point.

(16) like, if I said, "In 1990, how much did he put in, 1991"?

(171 Q: And Uberty Mig, Inc., was formed to do what?
(1S) A: Ubert Mig, Inc., was the operations company on

(171 A: The latest number tht I had seen was $2,l47,000, to
(IS) date.
(19) Q: But yea by yea, you don't have a breakdown?

(19) the property. We had another company tht was going to ac as

(201 a holdig company for our vaous properties by the nae of

(201 A: No, i don't, offd.
(21) Q: But your accountat is workig on that?

(21) Energe!, Inc., which was an exitig Delawar corporation of
(22) Mr. Goodan's.
(23) Q: Wht's a holdig company?
(24) A: We would put the mines into th company as a

(21 A: Yes. His accountat.

(23) Q: Hi accountat?
(24) A: Yes.

(25) holdig company.

(2SJ Q: For purposes of ths litigation?

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Aled Aloisi, et al v.

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM The United States

Document 137-7
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Aled Louis Aloi:'; Page 1, Januar 12, 19~:' VoL 5 of 8
Page 34

(1) A: Correct. Our investment-backed expectations.

(1) A: Uh-huh.

(2) Q: Where did Mr. Goodm get ths money? (3) A: Where did he get it? (41 Q: Where did he get it?
(5) A: You have to ask hi. I don't know. (61 Q: You don't have any idea?
f7 A: Well, I have some ideas, but I'd be speculatig,

(2) Q: How are they going to pay for it?
(3) A: Tht would be Mr. Goodman's - he could answer that

(4) for you better than i.
(SJ Q: Did Dynatech or Capricorn themselves provide any

(61 money?
f7 A: Once agai, I have to answer the question the same

(S) Q: Did he ever tell you where he got the money?

(S) way, You'll have to ask Mr. Goodman tht question.
(9) Could I take a break for a miute?
say that

(9) A: No. He did put the money though two of his
(10) corporations named Dynatech and Capricorn, I can

with

(10) (A short recess was taken.)

(11) a degree of certaty, and I believe he earned it. He quarries (12) 5 mion tons of rock a year, He makes 10 cents a ton, net, (13) so he has a cash flow, approxiately, of hal a mion per
(14) year, and he's been doing ths for 40 years.

(11) MR. MCBRIDE: On the record.
(12) Q: I'm going to back up for a miute because i have

(131 some questions. You mentioned a lease purchase for $640,000.

(15) Q: Where is his mie?
(16) A: He had a quarry in Nyack, New

(14) That covered which property or properties? (15) A: The Eddy Gulch group of properties on pages 4 and 5,
(16) and I would lie to make a correction. When we named those
(171 properties earlier, i included the Union

York, and another in

(171 New Jersey, but I'm not sure of the exact location.

Addition as being pait

(1S) Q: What is Dynatech?
(19) A: Dynatech and Capricorn are corporations owned and

(1S) of the origial group. It was an additional clai that we
I (191 added to the origial group, as were the others that we (20) specifed. Did you want me to give you the names of those (21) clais agai, Ms. Cook?
(22) Q: No,That was the Buckeye though Stevens?

(201 controlled, I believe, by Mr. Goodman.
(21) Q: Do you know

anytg else about what Dynatech is?

(22) A: No.
(23) Q: Do you know

anytg else about what Capricorn is?

(23) A: Those were the Associated Placer clais.
(24) Q: And Union

(24) A: No.
(25) Q: Now, you said the money was funded though these
Page 33

Addition is a lode?

(25) A: Yes,
Page 35
(lJ Q: And that was the new lode as well as Ohio 84?

(1) corporations. What do you mean by that?
(2) A: They provided the fInancing to Liberty and Energel

(2) A: Correct,

(3) though Dynatech and Capricorn, For example 14) Q: Wait. Okay. 'They" is who?

(3) Q: I got it.
(4) A: Yes, you did.

(51 A: Dynatech, Capricorn,

(SJ Q: Good.

(6) Q: Dynatech provided the fundig though Dyntech?
f7 A: No. Dynatech and Capricorn provided certa fudig

(6J A: Good memory.
f7 Q: Now, the $640,000 covered(S) A: The Dariel, Sunrise, Sunset, Raidrop, Union, Union

(SJ instruments to Liberty and EnergeL. For exaple, the equipment

(9) that was purchased was done with Dyntech and Capricorn as
(10) guarantors, to the best of my recollection.
(11) Q: "Provided certa fudig instrments." Wht

(9) Exension, Big Fish, Baner, Buster, 6 O'clock, Specimen, Blue

(10) Bell, Mounta Laurel, and Roll Mi Site.

(11) Q: And what year was tht price agreed to?
(12) A: 1980.

(121 fundig instrments? What do you mean by "fudig
(13) instruments"?

(131 Q: Did you ultiately exercise your right to purchase
(14) the property?

(14) A: They did leasing, lease purchasing with Middle
(15) States Financial. Bob Elsman, I th was the ma's name. (16) On-site heavy equipment-

(15) A: NO.As I explaied earlier, Mr. Palierson - I
(16) believe it was '83 - fied with the County the anual
(171 assessment work but faied to fie with the BLM due to an
(lS) iless resultig in his demise.

(171 Q: For example, let me just pick somethg. You need a
(1S1 bulldozer. They would go buy you a buldozer?
(19) A: Correct, or lease one. But I wouldn't use a
(20) bulldozer, because tht isn't a correct example.

We have a

(19) Q: And so they were lost? (20) A: They were lost. I went back to the estate, and i
(21) also went to Ruth Markon and entered into a new agreement where

(21) bulldozer, but. it was somethg that Mr, Goodman aleady

(22) owned. I'm tag about scrapers. (23) Q: Okay. Let's say it's a scraper. Doesn't matter
(24) what it is, It could be an orange. Let's say it's a scraper.

(22) I would pay each of them $50,000 for them to sign off.And

(23) also it was a matter of good faith,And those funds were
(24) provided then, and they did sign off,And Mr, Pincomb also

(25) They're going to go out and buy or lease the scraper for you.

(2SJ received $50,000, I might add.

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Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 137-7

Filed 05/28/2008

Page 6 of 8
October 31, 2007

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America

Page 1

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8

IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS ALFRED ALOISI, et al., ) ) ) ) ) UNITED STATES OF AMERICA, ) ) ) ) No. 95-650L )

Plaintiffs, 9 vs. 10 11 Defendants. 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

DEPOSITION OF ALFRED ALOISI Wednesday, October 31, 2007 9:20 a.m.

Reported By:

CRAIG W. WOOD, RPR, CSR No. 9789

CRAIG WOOD REPORTING Redding, California --- (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 137-7

Filed 05/28/2008

Page 7 of 8
October 31, 2007
Page 4

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 2

1 2 APPEARANCES 3 4 5 6 7 For the Plaintiffs: FOLEY & LARDNER Washington Harbour 3000 K Street, N.W., Suite 500 Washington, DC 20007-5101 (202) 295-4017 BY: LAWRENCE G. McBRIDE

8 9 For the Defendant: 10 DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE Environmental & Natural Resources Division 11 601 D Street, N.W. Washington, DC 20004 12 (202) 305-0238 BY: BRUCE K. Trauben 13 14 Also Present: Thomas Ferrero 15 Hilton Cass 16 17 18 ---oOo--19 20 21 22 23 24 25 Page 3

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

BE IT REMEMBERED that on Wednesday, October 31, 2007, commencing at the hour of 9:20 a.m., of said day, at the offices of Klamath National Forest, 1312 Fairlane Road, Yreka, California, before me, Craig W. Wood, a Certified Shorthand Reporter in and for the State of California, there personally appeared ALFRED L. ALOISI, who, being first duly sworn by me to tell the truth, was examined and testified as follows: ---oOo--EXAMINATION BY MR. TRAUBEN: Q. Will you please state your name for the record. A. Alfred L. Aloisi. Q. And you go by Fred? A. Yes, I do. Q. As you know, my name is Bruce Trauben. I represent the United States, the defendant in this action. A. Yes, Bruce, I've made your acquaintance. Q. I'll have some questions for you today. And just as an overview of what we're going to do today, I'm going to ask you some general questions about the -- who the plaintiffs are and the status of the plaintiffs.
Page 5

1 2 INDEX 3 EXAMINATION BY: 4 Mr. Trauben 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 4 Page

EXHIBITS FOR THE DEFENDANT'S: 1 Quitclaim Deed 2 Tax Assessor Cards 3 Document 4 Letter

29 47 129 131

---oOo---

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

We'll go into the property interest of the plaintiffs. The knowledge of the owl. We'll talk about the various components that go into a takings case. So just to give you an overview of what we'll be discussing. A. Thank you. Q. And, also, we'll get into your prior deposition. I have some follow-up questions and some discovery responses. A. Very well. Q. I understand from discussions with your attorney, Mr. McBride, that Mr. Goodman has passed away. A. Yes, he has. Q. And do you know when? A. Approximately three, four years ago. And I'm not certain of the exact date. Q. When did you learn of his passing? A. I would say three years ago. Q. Do you know, was it sudden, his death? A. No. It was -- I believe his health deteriorated over a considerable period of time. Don was diabetic and he had other problems, as well. Q. Do you know whether his estate is still in probate? A. I do not know. Q. Do you know who is representing his estate?
2 (Pages 2 to 5)

CRAIG WOOD REPORTING Redding, California --- (530) 244-0789

Case 1:95-cv-00650-LSM
Alfred Aloisi

Document 137-7

Filed 05/28/2008

Page 8 of 8
October 31, 2007
Page 104

Alfred Aloisi v. United States of America
Page 102

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A. Yes. To myself personally. Q. What piece of equipment? A. The Joy 180 power compressor at the very bottom. Q. And were you and yourself leasing it to -A. I vended it in. Q. Let me finish my question. We're talking at the same time. Were you leasing the air compressor to Dynatech? A. Same answer. I vended it in. Q. And what does that mean? A. I put it in for our considerations. Q. That's part of your contribution to the operation? A. Yes. Q. So your capital contribution? A. I think you might call it that. Q. And when I asked you whether this would appear on the books of Liberty Mining, Inc., for the record to be clear, you can answer that in the -- as a designee for Liberty Mining. Correct? It's your -- it's your answer as the designee for Liberty Mining, it would not appear in the Liberty Mining books?
Page 103

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

Liberty Mining, Inc. has? A. It's the only one I have at this time. I provided. Q. There were others? A. No. This is the only one that I have. Q. Currently. Were there others generated? A. I would believe so. Yes. I think this is all that we have left of those documents, though. Q. When was Liberty Mining formed? A. I believe it was -- about 1990. '89, '90, somewhere in there. We have Articles of Incorporation here. If I could look at them, I could let you know. Q. Okay. But just because this begins with April '89, it was sometime before April '89? A. I would think so. Yes. Q. And this is the company's register? A. Yes, sir. Q. Okay. Do you recognize any of the handwriting in the register? A. I do. I certainly do. Q. And is that -- any of that your handwriting? A. It is not. Q. Whose handwriting is that? A. Jim Kendle's. Oh, there is one piece here. On
Page 105

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

A. I don't believe so. Q. Have you ever seen any financial records from Dynatech? A. Yes. Q. Do you still have any financial records in your possession? A. I think we have some 1970 -- 1980 financial statements from Dynatech prior to our entering into any agreements with Mr. Goodman that would predate that. Q. Okay. Any subsequent to 1985? Any -A. I think it was about '87 or '86, Mr. Trauben, that that -- that financial statement that I referred to, I think that was the year that's on it. Very sketchy, though. I mean, it's -Q. But that was -- that would predate any investment by Dynatech into the Liberty Mining operation? A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you take a look at A-168, please. A. Yes, sir. Q. Can you state for the record what A-168 is? A. It appears to be the professional check register for Liberty Mining from August -- April of '89 to August of '89. Q. Is this the only handwritten register that

1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25

line -- check number 1006, Economy Plywood, that kind of looks like my handwriting. Maybe not. Guess not. Q. Between the two of you -A. Oh, and the top one here to Alfred Aloisi for $20 is my handwriting. Q. -- between the two of you, you and Mr. Kendle, was Mr. Kendle more responsible for keeping the books? A. Correct. Q. Do you know whether these -A. Excuse me one second. Q. Sure. A. I'm not sure if it was exactly at this same time, but approximately at this same time, we hired an accountant here in Medford by the name of Clay Vanderbrick, I think it was, that was doing our books and issuing checks to our crew. And I believe that would supplement this. It might have been shortly after these, might have been the next -Q. That's what I was going to get to. Can you take a look at A-164. You can leave the handwritten one available. A. Okay. Q. Was the document plaintiffs produced at A-164 prepared by the accounting firm that you hired? A. I believe so.
27 (Pages 102 to 105)

CRAIG WOOD REPORTING Redding, California --- (530) 244-0789