- - - - - -
--- - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - - - - - - - -Document 840-12
Victor W. Trebules,
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 1 of 25
Jr.
Page 1
IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS YANKEE ATOMIC ELECTRIC COMPANY
(98- 126C)
(Merow, S.
CONNECTICUT YANKEE ATOMIC POWER COMPANY
(98- 154C) (Merow, S. J. )
MAINE YANKEE ATOMIC POWER COMPANY
(98- 474C) (98- 483C)
(Merow, S.
FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY
(Wilson, J.
NORTHERN STATES POWER COMPANY
(98- 484C)(Wiese, J.
DUKE POWER, a Division of DUKE ENERGY CORP.
(98- 485C) (98- 486C)
(Sypolt, J. (Hodges, J.
INDIANA MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT
(98- 488C)(Yock, S.
""~1"
SOUTHERN NUCLEAR OPERATING COMPANY, et
(98- 614C)
ale :
(Merow, S.
COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY
( 98 - 62 1 C ) (H ew
it t , J.
BOSTON EDISON COMPANY (99- 447C) (Allegra, J. GPU NUCLEAR, INCORPORATED
(00- 440C)(Bush, J.
WISCONSIN ELECTRIC POWER COMPANY
( 00 - 6 9 7 C) (Merow,
S. J .
: VOLUME
POWER AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
(00- 703C)(Damich, J.
OMAHA PUBLIC POWER DISTRICT
(01- 115C)(Bush, J.
NEBRASKA PUBLIC POWER DISTRICT
(01- 116C)(Sypolt, J.
TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY
: Discovery
: Judge: : (Judge
(01- 249C)(Bruggink, J.
fJk:(~jJ .1.
Plaintiffs,
: Sypolt)
: PAGES
:1 - 241
Esquire Deposition Services
800- 441-3376
: '
--- ------- ---- ------- - - -- ---- ----- - --- - ---Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 840-12 Filed 07/07/2004 Page 2 of 25
Victor W. Trebules, Jr.
Page 2
THE UNITED STATES,
Defendant.
Deposi tion of victor
W. Trebules, Jr.
Washington, DC
Wednesday, April 17, 2002
Reported by:
JOB NO.
Denise
Dobner Vickery, RMR , CRR
144458
800- 441-3376
Esquire Deposition Services
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 3 of 25
Victor W. Trebules, Jr.
Page 10
whatever reason, as long as a question is not pending,
I would be more than happy to accommodate you in taking
a break.
(Nods head).
Could you just quickly just describe your
education after high
school.
I went to Ohio University for
All right.
five years.
I got a degree in engineering and a
I then did graduate
bachelor I S degree in physics.
work at
Lehigh University in
Bethlehem, Pennsylvania.
I got a master I S degree in mechanical engineering.
And when did you receive that final degree?
1972 I graduated from Lehigh.
And that was the master '
Yes.
Master I S degree in mechanical
engineering.
Okay.
When did you first -- &trike that.
Do you presently work for the Department of
Energy?
Yes, I do.
Okay.
When did you first -- when did you
start working for the Department of Energy?
Esquire Deposition Services
800- 441-3376
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 4 of 25
Victor W. Trebules , Jr.
Page 11
Actually, I started working for the Atomic
Energy Commission in 1972, which became the Energy
Research and Development Administration, which became
the Department of Energy.
I don' t remember the exact
year ERDA became the Department of
was about -- I don' t remember.
Energy.
I think it
Okay.
But you were there when the Department
of Energy was first formed it sounds like?
Yes.
Yes.
What was your first position in the Department
of Energy?
The Department of Energy or the Atomic Energy
Commission?
m going to start with the Department of
Energy.
Okay.
Again, I don' t remember exactly when
name changed, but I spent the first five years working
for the Pittsburgh Naval Reactors Office after I
graduated from college, and then I transferred to the
Atomic Energy Commission headquarters in Germantown,
Maryland and I worked in the Office of Nuclear Energy
Programs.
Esquire Deposition Services
800-441-3376
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 5 of 25
Victor W. Trebules, Jr.
Page 16
Radioactive Waste Management?
I don t remember the title of my first
position.
It was probably program analyst or
something like that, but I' m not exactly
sure.
Wha t
What did that position entail?
were
your responsibilities in that position? First major assignment I could remember was
coordin~ting the preparation of the mission plan for
the Civilian Radioactive Waste Management
Program.
Was there anything else that your role
entailed in that position?
MR. SHULTIS:
THE WITNESS:
Obj ectlon, vague.
That preparation of the
mission plan was pretty much a full-time activity for a
number of years.
So there might have been other minor
assignments I was given, but, you know, overall it was
primarily the mission plan.
BY MR. EIDUKAS:
Okay.
Did there come a time when your
position at the Office of Civilian Radioactive Waste
Management changed from program analyst working on the
mission plan?
Esquire Deposition Services
800- 441-3376
. . .
.. .
Filed 07/07/2004 Page 6 of 25
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Victor "V. TrebuJes , Jr.
Page 241
ESQUIRE DEPOSITION SERVICES
1020 19TH STREET, NORTHWEST
SUITE 620
WASHINGTON, D.
20036
ERRATA SHEET
Case Name:
Yankee Atomic Electric Co., et ale V.
The United States Witness Name: Victor W.
Depos i tion Date:
Job No.
Trebules,
2002
Jr.
April 17,
Change
144458,
Line No.
Page No.
Page 13, Line 17, change " Fishll
to " Fission
; Page 14, Line Ii,
change II Fish" to Fission ; Page 15, Line 4, change " Whitewater " to
I 9
Light Water ; Page 17, Line 19, change " technical"
Page 33, Line 1, change to read 11
one
to " executive
; Page 33,
whi ch
was our..
Line 3, place a period after " that.
, delete II where
, start new
sentence with "
; Page 56, Line 11, change "
field" to " fuel"
would
Page 64, Line 16, change " Al"
to II Alan
; Page 82, Line 11, change
" to lI and" ;
Page 98, Line 3, change to read 11
more
than. . . " ; Page 102, Li ne 10, change "
ll to " were
; Page 117,
Line 5, change II ground" to " round" ;
overview "
Page 126, Line 17, change
to " for review ; Page 138, Line 12, change " 1994"
to
1984" ; Page 153, Line 14, change " change "
to II changed" ;
Page 168,
line 4, delete " fold" ; Page 192, Line 1, change " 1995"
to " 1985"
Page 205, Line
22
15, change " 50, 000" to " 15, 000" ;
" in here
Page 226, Line 16,
d on 241a)
change " When "
to " Then " and delete
(Cont'
Signature \j~
0J.
~~ S-~;~:n
Esquire Deposition Services 1- 800- 441- 3376
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM VICTOR W. TREB(jLS, Filed 07/07/2004 Document 840-12 Jr.
Page 7 of 25
Page 241 a
ERRATA SHEET (CONTINuED)
\Vitness Name: Victor W. Trebules, Jr.
Page 226. Line 17 and 18 ,
bring Line 18 up to Line 17 , should be incorporated as
same paragraph , should read as ... Waste Negotiator. 'Nl1en Congress created...
Page 236, Line 13 ,
change " WIP" to " WIPP" ; Page 188, Line 10 , delete " past or
" to "
Page 188 ,
Line 16 change "
not"
Signature
~~I
S--~o- O7-
Date
.'"
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Victor Trebules
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 8 of 25
ORIGINAL
In the u. s.
Court of Federal Claims
--------- --x
Yankee Atomic Electric
et al
Co.,
98- 126C 98- 154C
NO.
98- 474C
United States of America
--x
April 19,
DEPOSITION OF:
2002
Victor W. Trebules,
Jr.
notice,
a witness, called by counsel pursuant to
commencing at 9: 00 a. m., which was taken at
Spriggs and Hollingsworth, 1350
Washington, DC
I St., NW,
, 21
Esquire Deposition Services
800-441-3376
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Victor Trebules
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 9 of 25
,I
Page 4
(Morning Session)
Stipulations
(It is stipulated and agreed by and
between counsel for the respective parties that the reading and signing of this transcript by the
witness are not waived.
further stipulated and agreed that the filing this transcript with the clerk
the court, be and the
same
hereby waived.
Whereupon,
Victor W. Trebules,
Jr.
and,
was called for examination by counsel
having been previously sworn, was recalled and testified as
follows:
DIRECT EXAMINATION:
BY MR. STOUCK:
Good morning,
Esquire Deposition Services
Mr. Trebules.
Would you
800- 441-3376
,,
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Victor Trebules
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 10 of 25
Page 5
agree that at the time that you were working on the plan in 1984 and 1985 it was an objective of the
spent fuel program that that program be operated in
an economically efficient manner?
MR. SHULTIS:
Objection as to
economically efficient.
It'
s vague.
I believe we said words to that effect in
the mission plan, that'
s correct.
Why was that an objective?
To the best of my recollection, I think
of'
we used phrases like fiduciary
~' 0
responsibility.
People working in the program felt that they had an obligation to try to execute the program
efficiently and effectively.
Why was that an objective?
We knew the program was going to cost a
lot of money over its lifetime.
guess
it'
s my opinion that the people
fel t
they ought to try to be efficient in
carrying
out that program.
Let'
s pull out the mission plan which I
think is exhibit six , if you would, please.
Esquire Deposition Services
800- 441-3376
- - - - - -- - --- - - - - - - - - --Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
- -- -
- - - - -
Document 840-12
Victor Trebules
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 11 of 25
In the U.
S. Court of Federal Claims
--x
Yankee Atomic Electric Co.,
et al
: NO. 98- 126C
98- 154C
98- 474C
United States of America
--- - -- --x
April 19,
DEPOSITI' ON OF:
2002
victor W. Trebules,
Jr.
notice,
a witness, called by counsel pursuant to
commencing at 9:00 a. m., which was taken at
Spriggs and Hollingsworth, 1350 I'
Washington, DC
St., NW,
Esquire Deposition Services
1~800- 441- 3376
,.
.. .
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Document 840-12 Filed 07/07/2004
...
Page 12 of 25
Victor Trebules
Page 59
Errata page of Deponent
Please note any errors on this sheet. The
reasons may be
general, such as " to
correct
stenographic error" or " to clari~y. the record.
When completed, send this page to the attorney
who took your depos i tion,
Page
NOT the court reporter.
Line
Correction
Reason For Change
; Page 10,
Page 8, Li ne
1, change " depos itory
ll to " repository
line 5, change lI andll to "
ll and change lI operations ll to
whatll to " somewhatll
operation ; Page 20, Line 17, change II some
Page 22, Li ne
5, change " castll
to II cask" , Page 22, Li ne
9, change
castll to II cask" ;
Page 26, line 19 and 20, should be
incorporated\.
Robert
as same paragraph and same sentence, change to read as II
Rosselli in the early...
stages
; Page 26, Line 20, delete " " after
; Page 30, Line 10 and 13, change " Wellington " to
Me 11 i ngton
; Page 30, Line 22, change II Troutner "
21, change " i n
to " Trautner
Page 35, Li ne
to ' read as "
il to " and" ; Page 52, Li ne
It would be...
6, change
that part of it.
\J~
b -zO--OZ
Esquire Deposition Services
800-441- 3376
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 13 of 25
EXHIBIT
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 14 of 25
Plaintiffs ' July 7, 2004 Possible Rebuttal Deposition Designations
Yankee Atomic Electric Company v. United States, 98- 126; Connecticut Yankee Atomic Power Company v. United States, 98- 474; Maine Yankee Atomic Power Company v. United States, 98- 154.
B.
Alan Brownstein (Organized by Date of Deposition)
1) April 9 ,
2002
Tr, 54: 1 - 55: 20; Tr. 64:5- 16; Tr. 146:23 - 148:9; Tr. 150:7 - 151:17
2) April 10 , 2002
Tr. 376: 22 - 378: 5
3) May 23 2002
Tr. 152: 6 - 155: 25; Tr. 165: 7 - Tr. 167: 3; Tr. 214:17 - 220:17; Tr. 233:14) June 14
2002
Tr. 423:20 - 428:5
C.
Nancy Slater- Thompson (Organized by Date of Deposition)
1) April 22 ,
1999
Tr. 244:5- 15; Tr. 273: 11 - 274: 5
2) June 13 , 2002
Tr. 94:16 - 96:16; Tr. 97:6 - 99: 6; Tr. 109:3 - 110:13; Tr. 159:7 - 160:2; Tr. 161:2(Organized by Date of Deposition)
D.
Ronald Milner
1) May 3 , 2002
Tr. 574:5 - 575:19
2) May 7 , 2002
Tr. 28:11- Tr. 32:11
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 15 of 25
3) May 8 , 2002
Tr. 155:4- 156:1
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 16 of 25
EXHIBIT
.. .../
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein Document 840-12 Filed 07/07/2004
McLean, VA
Page 17 of 259, 2002 April
Page 1
IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -x
YANKEE ATOMIC ELECTRIC COMPANY
(98- 126C) (Merow, S. J . )
CONNECTICUT YANKEE ATOMIC POWER COMPANY
(98- 154C) (Merow, S. J . )
FLORIDA POWER & LIGHT COMPANY
(98- 483C) (98- 484C)
(Wilson, J.
NORTHERN STATES POWER COMPANY
(Wiese,
DUKE POWER, A Division of
DUKE ENERGY CORP.
5"'
(98- 485C)
(Sypolt,
CJII8d' Copy
INDIANA MICHIGAN POWER COMPANY
(98- 486C) (98- 488C)
et ale
(Hodges, J.
SACRAMENTO MUNICIPAL UTILITY DISTRICT
(Yock, S.
SOUTHERN NUCLEAR OPERATING COMPANY,
(98- 488C) (98- 621C)
(Yock, S.
COMMONWEALTH EDISON COMPANY
(Hewitt, J.
BOSTON EDISON COMPANY
(99- 447C) (Allegra, J.
..~, 4
GPU NUCLEAR, INCORPORATED
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc.
111114th Street , N. W. Suite 400 1-800- FOR- DEPO Washington, DC 20005
-------------------Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein Document 840-12 Filed 07/07/2004 Page 18 of 25
McLean, VA
April 9, 2002
Page 2
(00- 440C)
(Bush, J.
WISCONSIN ELECTRIC POWER COMPANY
(00- 697C) (Merow, S. J . )
POWER AUTHORITY OF THE STATE OF NEW YORK
(00- 703C)
(01- 115C) (01- 116C) (01- 249C)
(Damich, J.
OMAHA PUBLIC POWER DISTRICT
(Bush, J.
NEBRASKA PUBLIC POWER DISTRICT
(Sypolt, J.
TENNESSEE VALLEY AUTHORITY
(Bruggink, J.
Plaintiffs,
Discovery
THE UNITED STATES,
: Judge:
Defendant.
McLean, Virginia
: (Judge
-xSypolt)
Tuesday, April 9, 2002
Deposition of ALAN BROWNSTEIN, a
wi tness, called for examination by counsel for
Plaintiffs in
the above-entitled matter,
pursuant to notice, the witness being duly sworn
by CATHERINE
S. BOYD, a Notary Public
in
and for
the Commonwealth of Virginia, taken at the
offices of Shaw Pittman, LLP, 1650 Tysons
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc.
111114th Street , N. W. Suite 400 1- 800- FOR- DEPO Washington, DC 20005
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 19 of April 9 , 2002 25
McLean , VA
Page 54
What were the responsibilities of the department with respect to the disposal of spent
nuclear fuel?
We were responsible
MR. BANES:
Obj ection
-- I' m
sorry.
Obj ection
.
Calls for a legal conclusion.
Go ahead.
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
UI timately we
were responsible for accepting that fuel for
permanent disposal. BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Was there a date by which the
department was to undertake that effort?
MR. BANES: Objection. Calls for a
legal conclusion.
Go ahead.
THE WITNESS:
I be
I ieve and the
department believed that we had to begin
accepting that fuel upon commencement of the
facility operations.
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Not by a particular date?
There was a date, but that date was
condi tional.
We believed that the January
31st,
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc.
111114th Street, N. W. Suite 400 1-800- FOR- DEPO Washington , DC 20005
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 20 of 25
McLean, VA
April 9 , 2002
Page 55
1998 date was clear as we responded to written
questions from the Hill and others, that that
date was conditional based on the commencement
of facility operations.
Q.
Did the department have the
responsibility to take title to the spent
nuclear fuel or high- level waste involved as
expeditiously as practicable?
MR. BANES:
Objection.
Calls for a
legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
Yes, but, and the but is
based upon commencement of facility
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
operations.
Is it your understanding, Mr.
Brownstein, that if the facility never opens,
then DOE never has an obligation under the
contract?
MR. BANES:
Objection.
Yes.
Calls for a
legal conclusion, and vague.
THE WITNESS:
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Did you have any understanding at or
about the time you became a DOE employee with respect to the spent nuclear fuel acceptance
rate that DOE was using with respect to the
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc.
111114th Street , N. W. Suite 400 1- 8oo- FOR- DEPO Washington , DC 20005
--'
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein Document 840-12 Filed 07/07/2004
McLean, VA
Page 21 of April 9 , 2002 25
Page 64
understand my question?
I don'
MR. BANES:
Same obj ection .
BY MR. TOMASZCZK:
Well, is it true that DOE under the
contract is committed to accept waste from the
signatories of standard disposal contracts on a firm schedule that begins no later than January
31, 1998?
MR. BANES:
Objection.
Calls for a
legal conclusion.
Go ahead.
14 believe that this is a, a goal.
I don
16
15 17
THE WITNESS:
I don' t believe that.
t believe that it accurately J
for.
\ represents what
the contract calls
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Did you ever discuss that view with
anyone?
sure that I must have, but I don'
recall specifically who or circumstances.
You would at least agree the first
sentence doesn' t talk about
goals, does
it?
MR. BANES:
Objection -- vague,
argumentative.
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street , N. W. Suite 400 1- 8oo- FOR- DEPO Washington , DC 20005
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 22 of 25
McLean, VA
April 9, 2002
Page 146
Yes.
And the sentence which I quoted has
the phrase contractually binding Delivery
Commi tment Schedules.
What provision of the contract
indicates that DCSs, Delivery Commitment
Schedules, are contractually binding?
MR. BANES:
Obj ection
.
Calls for a
legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
I have to go
back and
refresh my memory and read
it.
to Article V. B. of
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Sure. But I I m referring
the contract which addresses Delivery Commitment
Schedules.
Okay.
Take your time and have a look
at it.
(The witness reviewed the document.
THE WITNESS:
Okay.
I have reviewed
it.
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK.
Okay.
And what language in that
section of the contract supports the view that
you expressed in this letter that the DCSs were
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street, N. W. Suite 400 1- 800- FOR- DEPO Washington , DC 20005
..--..,
-......
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein Document 840-12 Filed 07/07/2004 Page 23 of April 9, 2002 25
McLean, VA
contractually binding?
agree with what I wrote at that
A. Well, in retrospect, I, I don' t really
time.
I think I was trying to juxtapose the
idea that we can meet either as a goal or as a
contractual commitment accepting a single
assembly versus a process which is more than
that as referred to in the contract.
I think, today I think that was
unfortunate, personally think it was an
unfortunate choice of words by using the word
contractually binding, but referred to in the
contract as Delivery Commitment
Schedule.
So sitting here today, you can'
identify a provision of the contract that says
the DCSs are binding, right?
In reading Article VI. B,
that word.
I didn' t see
Indeed do you have the understanding
that the DCSs are not binding?
MR. BANES:
Obj ection
.
Calls for a
legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS: I go back to my previous
testimony which guided,
you know, my thinking
25
I the entire ten-
year period that I was working
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street , N. W. Suite 400 1- 8oo- FOR- DEPO Washington , DC 20005
--...
Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM Alan Brownstein
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 24 of 25
McLean, VA
April 9, 2002
Page 148
wi th the contract, which was we had many
goals.
We had many obj ecti
ves, but in
terms of
contractual commitments, the, the, contractually
we had a responsibility to begin waste
acceptance following commencement of facility
operations.
That I s what I believed then.
what guided me.
That I
That I s what I believe
you have asked me, I have
stated.
Thank you, but I 1
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
I understood that.
not sure that was responsive to my question.
Okay.
My question was sitting here
today,
isn I t it true that the DCSs are not binding?
MR. BANES: Objection. Calls for a
legal conclusion.
THE WITNESS:
I do believe that I
that is a legal matter. I mean I I m not a lawyer.
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Well, with all due
think that answer
respect, sir , I
years,
I s also not responsive.
What is your understanding, having
worked on the program for more than ten
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street, N. W. Suite 400 1- 800- FOR- DEPO Washington , DC 20005
-'
"-Case 1:98-cv-00126-JFM
Alan Brownstein
Document 840-12
Filed 07/07/2004
Page 25 of 25
April 9, 2002
McLean, VA
Page 150
was a change made in the concurrence process by
an attorney or a policy change.
Fifteen years ago,
word, one word. BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
I
just, I' m
having
a difficult time explaining what I meant by that
Okay.
And my question was sitting
here today, is it your understanding that the
DCSs are binding or not?
MR. BANES:
Obj ection -- asked and
answered.
MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Well, I'
ve asked
it.
m not sure he has
MR. BANES:
answered.
I think he has answered
it.
I think what he said is he can' t divorce it
from the commencement of facility operations, so
if there is no facility in operation, then it
wouldn' t be binding.
I think that'
THE WITNESS:
s what he said. That' s exactly right.
We can go down two paths here, you know.
there was a
facility, if
BY MR. TOMASZCZUK:
Go ahead.
If there was a facility, and if th
Alderson Reporting Company, Inc. 111114th Street, N. W. Suite 400 1- 8oo-FOR- DEPO Washington , DC 20005