Free Motion in Limine - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:03-cv-00600-EJD

Document 66-8

Filed 01/23/2008

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IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERA CLAIMS
CHEYENNE RIVER SIOUX

TRIBE, ET AL.,

)
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CIVIL NO.

03-600-L

PLAINTIFFS,
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DEPOSITION OF JOHN GARRISON

VS.
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)

)

THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA,
DEFENDANT.

) ) )

TAKEN ON BEHALF OF

PLAINTIFFS

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DEPOSITION OF JOHN GARRISON taken before Susan M. McKenzie, General Notary Public within and for the State of Nebraska, beginning at 8:40 a.m. on August 24, 2006, at the offices of the United States Corps of Engineers, 106 15th Street, Omaha, Nebraska.

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1 APPEARANCES
2 ON BEHALF OF PlANTFF:
MS. PAMELA SNYDER-VARNS
3 Gunderson, Palmer, Goodsell & Nelson, LLP

1 (Whereupon, the following proceedings were

2 had, to-wit:)

American Memorial Life Building
4 440 Mt. Rushmore Road

3 JOHN GARRISON
4 having been first duly sworn
5 was examined and testified as follows:

Rapid City, SD 57709
5 (60S) 342-1078 Fax (60S) 342-9503

and 6 MS. TRCEY ASCHER Cheyenne River Sioux Tribal Attorney
7 Box 1, Fort Pierre, SD 57532

6 DIRECT EXMINATION
7 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

8 Q Would you please state your name for the
9 record?

(60S) 223-9099 Fax (60S) 223-9199

8
ON BEHALF OF DEFENDANT:

10 A John Garrison.
11 Q Would it be okay if I called you John?

9 MR. JAMES D. GET
U.s. Department of Justce 10 Environment & Natural Resources Division 601 D Street NW
11 Washington D.C. 20004
(202) 305-1461 Fax (202) 514-8865

12 A Yes, it would be.
13 Q My name is Pam Snyder-Yarns. We met just a
14 few moments ago. Have you ever had your deposition

12 and
MR. THOMAS J. INGRAM, IV, Asistnt Distrct Counsel

15 taken before?

13 US Army Corps of Engineers 106 South 15th Street
14 Omaha, NE 68102

16 A No.
17 Q I'll just run through a couple of ground 18 rules that wil make it easier for Susan, our court 19 reporter here, to take down our words. Just remember
20 to state your answers out loud as opposed to shaking

(402) 221-7599 Fax (402) 221-061
15 16 ALSO PRESENT: LINDA BURKE 17 18 19

20 21 22 23 24 25

21 your head or shrugging your shoulders. Try to 22 remember to wait until I finish my question before 23 you start talking, and I'll try to remember to do the 24 same thing, because it's diffcult for Susan to take 25 down both of our words when we're speaking at the
Page 3

2 CASE CAPTION. . . . . . . . . . . . .. Page 1 APPEARANCES. . . . . . . . . . . . .. Page 2
3 INDEX................. Page 3

1 INDEX

Page 5

1 same time. Also if you don't understand a question,
2 I will rephrase it for you, so just let me know that.

3 If you need a break at any time, just let me know.

TESTMONY. . . . . . . . . . . . . .. Page 4
4 REPORTER CERTIFICATE. . . . . . . . .. Page 112 COST CERTIFICATE. . . . . . . . . . .. Page 113

4 A Okay.
5 Q Can you give me your business address? 6 A 106 South 15th Street, Omaha, Nebraska,
7 68102.

5 READ & SIGN LITR. . . . . . . . . .. Page 114
ERRATA SHEET. . . . . .. . . . . . .. Page 115 6
DIRECT EXMINATION 7 By Ms. Snyder-Yams ...... .. Page 4

8 Q i take it that's a new address?

9 A No.
10 Q Just never write letters to yourself? 11 A Well, no. Yeah, it's right here. Yeah,
12 you're right.

8 CROSS EXMINATION By Mr. Gette . . . . . . . . . .. Page 102
9 10

12 8 - 2003 SEDIMENTATION REPORT 18
9 - AGGRADATION AND DEGRADATION ASPECTS

11 EXHIBITS MARKED

13

OF THE MISSOURI RIER MAIN STM DAMS

13 Q It's like calling home. 14 What is your profession? 15 A I work for the Corp of Engineers as a
16 hydrologist.

(COMPLET REPORT) 42 14 10 - SERIES OF CHARTS 101
15 16 17 18 19

17 Q And what is your education? 18 A I have a bachelor of science in Geology
19 from Lake Superior State College.

20
21 22 23

20 Q When did you get that? 21 A 1982.
22 Q Did you do any postgraduate work?

23 A No.
24 Q Any certifications? 25 A What do you mean certifications? From
2 (Pages 2 to 5)
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1 colleges?

1 Q Sure. It's right there (indicating).
2 Did you write your bio?

2 Q A lot of times engineers will have
3 certification and memberships --

4 A No.
5 Q Are you a member of any organizations of
6 geologist?

3 A I don't remember. It's been quite some
4 time. Hydrogeologic would be kind of a

5 geomorphology, looking at the land forms. And then
6 hydrologic would be looking at the water, the flow

7 A No.
8 Q And you're employed with the Corp of
9 Engineers?

7 and the sediment deposition.

8 Q Did you get any training to perform these
9 assessments?

10 A Yes.
11 Q How long have you been with them?

10 A Yes.
11 Q What did that consist of, and when did you 12 do it?

12 A Since about 1983?
13 A I left for a short period of time but came
14 back. So I have 27 years in I think with my military

13 A It's been kind of on-the-job training. And
14 then the

15 time. 16 Q And you say you left for a short period.
17 Was that for military service?

Corps sends you to training once every two

15 years or so. So over a period of time I've had 16 different courses.

18 A No.
19 Q What was that for? 20 A To take an air traffc control job.
21 Q And so you did that for a brief period and

17 Q You also work with -- well, if you would
18 tell me about hydrologic assessments. Have you done

19 many of those?

20 A No. I'm usually in the field doing
21 surveys. And then I've done some assessments of

22 then-23 A I went down to the training in Oklahoma,
24 but it just wasn't for me.

22 sediment deposition.

23 Q You've done more of those than the
24 hydrologic assessments?

25 Q i understand it's a very unique
Page 7

25 A Yes.
Page 9

1 profession.

2 A Yeah.
3 Q So you've been with the Corps for 27 years.
4 When you started with the Corps, what did you do?

1 Q Tell me what the assessments of sediment
2 deposition consist of?

3 A There's one below Garrison Dam that we just
4 took a look at the cross-sections. And we run
5 hydraulic elements, which is channel width and

5 A My first job with the Corps was working in

6 the lab.
7 Q What lab? 8 A The Corps lab. And it was analyzing
9 sediment samples.

6 average bed. We take a look at the changes and make

7 some -- and we look at the gauge sttion, and then we
8 just make some assessments off them.

10 Q Where is that lab?
11 A It's over on 17th Street here in Omaha. 12 Q And you were analyzing sediment samples?

9 Q So you take a combination of data about the
10 shape of the land, and then you also look at water

11 levels?

13 A (Nods head).
14 Q How long did you do that?

12 A We take a look at the changes in the
13 channel mainly, you know, because I'm usually dealing 14 with a little bit of the overbank and then the main 15 channeL. And then we take a look at -- well, not so 16 much water levels -- the historic change of the

15 A I'm not sure. It wasn't a long time.
16 Probably four months. Then I strted working with 17 the survey crew. And then I strted working in
18 hydrology, in the Hydrologic Section, probably 1984,

19 '85, right around there. Been there since then.
20 Been in this offce for 20 plus years.

17 cross-section. 18 Q You talked about stges. And that's why I 19 asked about--

20 A Well, then in stages, you have a gauging
21 sttion, and you can take a look at the water

21 Q The bio that I read about you on the web
22 says that you conduct hydrologic and hydrogeologic

23 assessments of sediment deposition. Can you tell me
24 the difference between those two and what they are?

22 surfaces at that point and see if they've risen or 23 lowered for a certin discharge.

24 Q You also apparently have done some work
25 with sediment yields.

25 A Could you repeat that? Could I see that?

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1 A Yes, I've looked at some sediment yields.
2 We do a survey of the reserviors. We have our
3 cross-sections, and we can run a program, and it wil

1 crew and take measurements of the water surface as we
2 go downstream.

3 Q What about hydrographic surveys? That
4 would be surveying the cross-sections? And sediment
5 investigations. Anything there that you haven't

4 tell us how much sediment -- or estimate how much

5 sediment has come into the reservoir.

6 Q When you talk about cross-sections, you
7 mean the range lines?

6 already discussed?

8 A Range lines.
9 Q Are they the same thing? 10 A Yes.
11 Q Other things mentioned in your biography
12 include shoreline ero.sion, geomorphology and 13 floodplain groundwater in the Omaha District.
14 What have you done with shoreline erosion?

7 A No, I think we probably prett much
8 discussed them.

9 Q You're within the Sedimentation and Stream
10 Bank 5tablization Section or the Hydraulics Section?

11 A The Sedimentation and Channel Stabilzation
12 Section.

13 Q And is that the section in which you have
14 worked the majority of your time at the Corps?

15 A Some people have requested that they're
16 losing the shoreline, they're losing some of their 17 bank. So we wil take a look at that and see if they 18 have been or how much and try to estimate -19 sometimes we try to estimate how much more they wil

15 A Yes. Hi Q Who is your immediate supervisor?
17 A John Remus. 18 Q So you've been prett much working with
19 sediment and erosion and channel geomorphology for

20 lose. We use cross-sections or aerial photographs 21 for that.

20 the last 20 years?

21 A Uh-huh. Collecting, you know,
22 cross-section surveys. Right.

22 Q How many studies have you done on shoreline
23 erosion? Can you estimate?

23 Q Is that the principal source of data for a
24 lot of your work, surveys of the channel

24 A Oh, 15 to 20 I suppose.
25 Q Okay. Channel geomorphology, is that some
Page 11

25 cross-sections?
Page 13

1 of what you already told me about? Or what is that

1 A The cross-sections and water surfaces.
2 Uh-huh.

2 about?

3 A That's -- geomorphology is the change in
4 land forms. So by the cross-sections, you're looking
5 at the change of the land forms, sandbars.

3 Q Those two? 4 A Yes. And probably aerial photographs. You
5 know, we use all the tools we can. But if you're
6 trying to compare historic data, then the

6 Q What have you done with floodplain
7 groundwater?

8 A We have some groundwater wells at various
9 loctions in the Omaha District, and we collect the
10 data from them, sometimes once a month, sometimes

7 cross-secions give us a historic basis. 8 Q Do you know the history of those
9 cross-sections?

10 MR. GET: Objection.
11 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:
12 Q You use them all

11 once every two weeks, and then we store the data.
12 And then we've looked at it in a couple cases, I 13 think, you know, and seen what it's doing, is it 14 lowering over time or rising over time.

the time. So I'm just

13 wondering what you know about why they were
14 instlled, when they were installed, what methodology

15 Q How many district are you talking about?

15 was utilized.

16 A Just the Omaha District. But there's -- I
17 don't know -- let's see, right now there's probably 18 only one location where we're collecting groundwater,

16 A They were put in at various times. I
17 believe there's over 700 of them fromPonca, 18 Nebraska, up through Montana. And they're usually 19 put in so they could survey them at different periods

19 but at some times there used to be probably six or 20 seven locations. 21 Q You serve as Crew Chief on water surface 22 profiles. What do you do in that capacity?

20 and find out what changes are occurring, is the bed
21 rising, is the bed lowering, is the banks Widening or 22 narrowing. And then different project, they were 23 usually put in right before the project was built or 24 shortly right afterwards, so they have an initial

23 A They try to put -- as an example, Gavins
24 Point dam, they try to put a steady discharge down 25 below that dam. And we will all go out with a survey

25 survey.

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1 Q What individuals within the District put
2 them in?

1 anymore. I mean -- well, you know, on the Missouri
2 River there might be some new ones installed. If

3 A Well, it would have probably been the
4 people working -- I'm not sure. So I'm thinking -5 but I would think it would have been the people

3 there was a new project, they might have installed 4 them.

5 Q When I say "who," who within the Corps?

6 working at the project. You know, Fort Randall
7 personnel would have put in the Fort Randall. But
8 I'm not sure. I know at one time there was ä lot

6 A On the main stem dams, we would install
7 them and we'd put them in our section, the Channel
8 Stabilzation Section. And then we maintain them.

9 more people working for the Corps. They had a bigger

10 field crew. So it could have been out of Omaha; 11 could have been out of the dams. 12 Q Do you know what the pattern is for the
13 installation of the range lines as far as where they 14 are located within the project?

9 We try to get out to them as often as we can. By 10 maintaining them, you're just cutting away any brush 11 that's around them, painting them up if they're 12 metal, and then seeing if they're ready to fall in. 13 Then it's easier -- if there's, you know, two out 14 there, then it's easier to set it on line

15 A Generally they try to put them in where

15 historically. Now that you have GPS coordinates,

16 they thought they would gain the most information. 16 it's not as important to maintain. 17 So downstream of dam they're probably prett much put 17 Q What is the distibution of the location of 18 in at straight line part of the river upsteam, and 18 range lines between reserviors and tributaries? 19 they're put in high enough that, you know, water 19 A There's more on the -- generally speaking, 20 wouldn't get to them, in other words, you could see 20 there's more on reserviors because reserviors are 21 from one side to the other. They were originally put 21 bigger but they're spaced out farther apart. The 22 in just by putting them in straight across from each 22 closer you get to the upstream end of reserviors, the

23 other. 24 Q And when you say "putting them in," what
25 are you talking about physically?

23 range lines are a little bitdoser. The closer you 24 get to the dam, they can spread out five miles apart.

25 Q The Omaha District has a series of report
Page 15
Page 17

1 A Digging a hole, putting a pipe down or
2 rebar and putting them in concrete or not concrete.

1 entitled MRD Sediment Report.

3 There's a lot of different ways you can put it in. 4 Monumentation is usually on the back one and then in
5 front of it they have a pipe or something. And then

2 A Uh-huh. 3 Q When I looked on the web page getting ready
4 for these deposition, it seems like your name was

5 attched to this series of report; is that right?

6 every one is different. But since they put them in,
7 we've try to get GPS coordinates put on them. And we
8 are slowly doing that. But when we do a new survey,

6 A They attch me, yeah.

7 Q Why?
8 A It's just somebody to cali. If you needed
9 a copy, I could get you a copy.

9 we try to get coordinates. And I believe we got 10 coordinates on most all of them now except up in 11 Garrison and Fort Peck.

10 Most of those -- there's two of them.
11 They're sediment memorandas and sediment series, but,
12 you know --

12 Q Is there a record of where all the range
13 lines in the Omaha District are located?

14 A We have a map showing where they are on a
15 map. And then we have the GPS coordinates that we
16 just obtained from them.

13 Q What is the difference between the two? 14 A One is more project related -15 Q Which one?

16 A Sediment Series I believe is mòre project
17 related. And then memorandas probably more of a

17 Q Have you instlled any range lines
18 yourself?

18 general area.
19 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

19 A I've never put in a new range line. But
20 in a lot of cases, especially on the reservoir,
21 there's two pipes on each side. And if they've
22 eroded in, then we have put in new monuments.

20 Q We might as well just mark this. I got it 21 off the web. This is the listing of the sediment

23 Q Who presently instlls or maintains the 24 range lines?

22 report. 23 A Okay. So here you have the sedimentation
24 in the Fort Peck reservoir. There's a little bit of 25 mix on both sides of that, how they go back and

25 A We maintain them. Andno one installs them

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1 of that study?

Page 6 of 29
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1 forth. But I think you asked for that report

2 yesterday. And I could get it, so --

2 A He told me to go up there and do it. So I

3 Q So is this a complete set of the report
4 discussing sediment in the Omaha District?

4 it.
5

3 guess he had the input on it, and then I had input on

5 A I think Sediment Series 39-C is about the
6 last one. We might have one or two more on the

7 sediment memorandas. It might be go up to 23. I'm

8 not positive.

9 Q Okay.
10 A But it looks like a prett good list.

12 marked for identification).
13 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

11 (Exhibit NO.8

14 Q In the course of this litigation, when the
15 Plaintiffs issued request for studies or modeling on 16 the Moreau River or in some cases basin-wide, were 17 you the one that was asked to compile the information

18 that we were requesting as far as these report are
19 concerned?

20 A That depends.
21 Q On what? 22 A On the report. You know, if we would have
23 it, if it would be one of these, I'd probably get it. 24 If it was on modeling, the person that did the
25 modeling would have to get it, or whatever section

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Q Who designed the study? A That wasn't -- it was an analysis. I
believe how things probably occurred was that they said that there was some flooding up there and could we verify that or not. And one of the first things you would look at would be the cross-sections. And so --

Q Why? A -- we went up there to take a look at the
cross-sections --

Q As we go along, if I could stop and ask you
a couple things.

MR. GETE: Actually, I would object

to that. If he could finish his answers before you ask your next question.
THE WITNESS: Well, the cross-sections, we have a historic record of what's there. So you would take a look at the

20 21 22 23

cross-sections to see if they've changed, if they
haven't changed. And, of course, they're always

24 25

going to change a litte bit because of nature. But
Page 21

Page 19

1 that came from.

1 you take a look at that, and then you progress. And
2 that -- to my knowledge, this was just to look at

2 Q Would the various sections within the
3 Engineering Division maintain its own collection of
4 report and studies?

3 changes in the cross-sections.
4 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

5 A I assume so. I mean, we do, but I don't
6 know the other sections.

5 Q When you say "they," who are you referring
6 to?

7 Q Has the Corps done any studies on the
8 Moreau River?

7 A It's just my manner of speech. I guess I
8 don't know who "they" -- probably it is our secion
9 that decided to go out there and take a look at the

9 A We did the assessment that I did. 10 Q Is that the 2003 Sedimentation Report? 11 A Right. And then there was an earlier one
12 done on the Oahe project that I haven't read. I

10 cross-secions and then see what we saw and then

11 write it up, and then it goes to whoever.

12 Q When you were asked to go do this, were you
13 asked to do something that you do on a regular basis,
14 and is that why it's diffcult for you to tell me 15 what it was you were asked to do? Or what was it
16 that John Remus told you to do?
17 A Well, we wanted to go

13 think it looked at all the historic data up to a
14 certain point. And I don't think they did any

15 analysis, but they have all the data that they
16 collected, which they do sometimes, and then somebody

17 else can go and use that data to -18 Q What data did they collec?

up to --

18 MR. GET: Objecton to the
19 characterization that he's had diffculty tellng you

19 A Prett much cross-secion data, gauge data,
20 probably pool elevations would have been some of the

21 data they colleced.
22 Q When you did the sedimentation study in 23 2003, who asked you to do that? 24 A John Remus.

20 what he did or was asked to do. 21 Go ahead. You can answer. 22 THE WITESS: I thought I did. We 23 went up to look at the cross-sectons and what
24 changes occurred. And we do that quite often, but we 25 do a lot of different things.

25 Q What input did he have as far as the scope

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1

1

2 3

Q

Did he tell you to just look at the

2 3

cross-sections or did he ask you to do a
sedimentation study?

you're literally surveying? A Yes. Q And you record the data that you obtain

4
5

4
5

from the surveying equipment?
How do you learn -- or how do you survey the cross-section? How does that work in layman's

A

No. It was to look at the cross-sections

6 7
8

9 10
11 12 13

and see if they've changed and then, you know, what happened. That's all we looked at up there. And the gauge, I think we did a little bit on the gauge, just a quick look at the White Horse gauge. We didn't

6 7 8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

terms?
A The monument is at the certain elevation. So when you walk across, you take your shots wherever

look at anything else. Q When you say "we," who do you mean? A The crew that went up with me.
And who was that? A Myself, our summer help at the time, Ben Ream, and then Neal Vol!. Q Who is Neal Voii?
Q
A
He works under Jeff McClenathan.
In the Hydraulics Section?

there's a break in land. You shoot a distnce from that pipe, and you shoot an elevation, and you record it in a book and go all the way across.
Q And when you say you shoot an elevation at a break in land, what do you mean by a break in the land? A There's a little bit of an art to it. But you walk across until you see -- if it's flat, you don't need too many shots. So I always like to get a shot within ever two to 300 feet if it looks flat. But if you all of a sudden see a rise, you get a shot at the toe and then at the top of that, and then you

14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23

Q
A

Q

Yes. Why was it these individuals that went with

20
21 22 23

you?

Ben was working for us, and Neal was a person that was available to go with us at the time.
A

24 25

Q

When you looked at the cross-secions, is

that a straightforward examination or were there some
Page 23

24 25

go across. Q So you -- with the survey equipment, you try to recreate the lay of the land at the cross-section?
Page 25

1

sort of parameters that were given to you or that you

1

2 3

applied when you did the cross-section surveys up on
the Moreau?

2
3

4
5 6
Q
A

MR. GETE: Objection.
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

4
5

Yeah, you're surveying across there and you're shooting distance and elevation, and then you're trying to represent what that cross-section looks like. Q How do you record the cross-section
A
information you obtain on the surveys?

Do you need me to rephrase that question?

7 8
9 10
11

No. We just went from one pipe to the other pipe like we always do. You know, we took off
from one monument and went straight across the river to the other monument.
Q When you say went "straight across the river to the other," what do you mean? A You try to sty in a straight line and do the same cross-section, you know, try to stay right beteen the two monuments on a stight line. Q What equipment do you use? A In that case we used the total station. Q What is that?
A

6 7 8

A

In this survey, 2003, I recorded it in the
And do you have that information in your

book, in a survey book.
Q

9
10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

files?
A

Yes, I do. And then -- yeah.
What other fies or data do you have that
We have all the historic cross-secon data

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Q
A

you used in preparing the 2003 study report?

from the various years that it was taken. And then
you can plot it out and then take a look at the data. Q Have you surveyed any cross-sections since 2002, 2003 before you prepared the report? A We surveyed those in 2003, and then we've done some more surveys at the request of the DOJ's

It's surveying equipment that shoots at

20
21 22 23 24

distance and elevation. And then you have a rod man
holding a rod with a prism on it, and he walks out and then you shoot at distance and elevation, and then he walks out farther and you shoot a distnce and elevation.
Q

20
21 22 23

expert.
Q

How many more surveys?

25

So when you do cross-section surveys,

24 25

A We surveyed the cross-secion lines. And I went up there twice. But it's just -- and then I

think they wanted a couple other surveys maybe at the

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1

2 3

bridge where there was no historic data. And so, you know, it was at the bridge and then at our

1

A

I read it I think probably right when it

cross-sections.
Q

2 3

was done. And that was probably -- when it was

complete I guess.
Q
A

4
5 6 7 8

So you've done some cross-section surveys

4
5

Did Jeff McClenathan ever go with you on
No.

other than at range lines?

any trips up to the Moreau?
You've been working with sedimentation for the Omaha District for many years I understand. Can
Q

A Yes. And then we also extended the cross-section lines at their request.

6 7

Q
A

You said you went up there twice. Do you

8
9 10
11

9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

have a general recollection of when that was?
Let's see. It was October of 2005, and then April or May of 2006.

you just tell me what is sedimentation?
A

Sedimentation is sediment coming from

Who went with you? I think Jolene went with us. She was working in the offce, working with me, from here. And then we met Eric Stasch or Steve Brockhouse from
Q
A

the Oahe project up there.
Q
A

What's Jolene's last name?
Halsing. Why did Jolene go with you?
She works in our offce. She started about

Q
A

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

another source and it's transported to another place, and then it either deposits or it can move out. I guess that's what sedimentation would be, the
movement of the sediment. Q And is it occurring in the main stem

reservoir system?
A

Yes.

Q
A

Where? It occurs -- there's probably sedimentation

20
21

three years ago.

22 23 24 25

Q A

What does she do? Or what is her position?

She's a surveyor and a GIS expert -- or
You've worked in the Omaha District now
Page 27

trainee.
Q

20 21 22 23 24 25

about every place along with the river. Q Where does it tend to accumulate within the

system?
A

Usually in the headwater areas.

Q
A

What do you mean by that? That would be -- the headwater area of a
Page 29

1

2 3

for about 20 years. And basically you've worked on the Missouri for 20 years. In fact, your bio talks

1

2
3

reservoir would be a delta area. Q Where either the Missouri or the

4
5

about that. In that time, have you gotten a sense of the general characteristics of, say, the Oahe
reservoir and the tributaries that flow into it? A When I started, the person that hired me said that it would take about ten years to go around the whole district. It's a big district. So I've been to Oahe a few times. But I don't know one place
better than another. We also handle small

tributaries to the reservoir flow into the reservoir?
A

4
5

Yes.

Q
A

Would it include both?

6
7

8 9 10
11

6 7 8
9 10
11

Yeah, wherever the Missouri River has been able to pick up some sediment and deposit, yes, and where the tributaries come in.
Q
A

lakes too,

Is sediment a problem in the system? "Problem," that's a different word. But,

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

so we're not always on the Missouri River. Q Did you have anything to do with the aggradation study that was prepared in 2003? A Which aggradation study? Q On the Moreau River? A No.

20
21

So this Exhibit NO.7 you're not familar with at all? A I know that they did it, I mean, you know, Jeff McClenathan and stuff. But I didn't do anything
Q

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

you know, sedimentation occurs. It's a natural process. It occurs. And it causes problems for some

people.
Q

Given the fact that there is a

Sedimentation and Channel Stabilzation Section of
the Hydrologic Engineering Section or Division within the Engineering Division of the Omaha District, it

would seem that sedimentation is an issue. A It's definitely an issue.
Q

20
21 22 23

There's a whole staff of people that are

for it. I colleced the cross-section data.
Q
A

employed by the Corps to address it in the Omaha
Distict; right?

22
23

Did you have any other input or involvement
No. Have you ever read the report?

in this report at all or study?
Q

A

Yes, and see what's happening, where it's

24 25

24 25

occurring. Q What effect does sedimentation have on the

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main stem reservoir system, or what effect?
A Are you -- I guess I need to clarify. Are you talking about deposition or just sedimentation? Q i can break that down for you.

1

stations, what do you mean?
A

2
3

2

We try to see what -- we use it for the

3

flow he flow. And then some sttions have taken
sediment samples.

4
5

4
5

6 7
8

Where is sedimentation having an effect on the system or the operation of the system? MR. GETE: Objection; assumes it is.
But go ahead. You can answer. THE WITNESS: Sedimentation also can

6
7 8

Q So gauging stations measure water levels or flows? Flows and water surface elevation. A Q And when you talk about the

9 10
11

be a lack of deposition. I mean, downstream of the
dams, the bed's degrading. So sedimentation is occurring all over the District, all over the United

9 10
11

cross-sections, is there a system for gathering data
from the cross-sectons?

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

States -- well, the world. And where a pool is out
in the headwaters at a delta area, then there's

deposition.

Is that the question?
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

Q

Yes. And my understanding is that in the

tail waters of the reservoirs, there's a scouring of
the deposition; right?
A

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

A Again, you go from the pipe on one side to the pipe on the other side, and you survey in between

it. Sometimes you need a boat, sometimes you wade,
and sometimes you're over land. Q And I guess that question wasn't clear

20
21 22 23 24 25

20
21

because what I was looking for more was what kind of system does the Corps have for gathering data and recording data from the cross-sections to monitor sediment in the system? A Okay. When we do our survey, we collect
the data, and then we put it in our database. And

Yes, the downstream of the dams.
So the general character of the deposition

Q

of sediment is that it deposits in the headwaters and
the back waters where the tributaries flow in or the Missouri flows into the reservoirs and then it tends
Page 31

22 23 24 25

sometimes there's a report written mainly just
showing you all the data, and then somebody can take

that data, another engineer can take that data and
then use it.
Page 33

1

2 3

to scour below the dams? A The dams discharge sediment-free water and
it scours out; right. Q What other general characteristcs of the

1

Q

What system do you have for collectng the

2 3

data? Is there any regularity to gathering data from

particular cross-secons or range lines?
We wil Well try to do a whole project at one time, like the Oahe project, Garrison project. They were done more frequently when the dams were in place. Q Do you do a project every so many years?
A

4
5

4
5 6 7

deposition of sediment can you tell me about -MR. GETE: Objection.
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

Q -- based upon your 20 years of working with sedimentation in the Omaha District? A Well, where the sediment deposits and at

8
9 10
11

A The main stems now, the reservoirs I think are on about a 20-year time period. And, of cours,

the delta, it changes the area of the cross-section,
builds up sandbars, sometimes islands.

that depends on funding. And then the degradation

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Q
A

Does the Corps monitor sedimentation?

reaches or the reaches below the dam, we try to do them about ten or 15 years.
What about tributaries? Tributaries would be done when the project is done. For Oahe, then you would do the Cheyenne, Moreau.
Q
A

Q
A

Yes. What does that consist of? Again, that would mainly consist of the

17 18
19

cross-sections, because then we have a data and we see how it's built up. But they also use gauging

MR. GET: When you get to a good
spot -BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

sttions.
Q
A
And the gauging sttions are U.S. Geologic

20 21 22 23 24 25

20
21 22 23 24 25

Survey gauging sttions?

Most of them are. Some are owned by the -well, owned by the Corps I guess. But generally the
USGS then wil monitor that gauge for us.

Q When you do surveys other than the project surveys, what generates that?
A
Surveys other than the projec surveys?

Q

And when you say you use the gauging

Other than the cross-sections? Q No. When we're talking about doing

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1 cross-section surveys and we're doing it on a regular

2 basis, schedules for project and for the reaches

3 below the dams every ten years, but you said we also 4 do it when someone asks for it, what generates those
5 requests? What are you talking about there?

1 2 3 4

A Q A Q

Our section does.
Who within the section? Myself, Jolene, Larry Morong --

So when somebody asks for cross-section

5 data--

6 A If somebody has a problem, bank erosion,
7 flooding, and we need to go out and collect some
8 data, well go out and do two or three or more
9 cross-sections or what needs to be done that's close
10 to there. If there's no cross-sections -- if there's

6 A -- or -- well, I'll just let you finish I
7 guess.

8 Q Go ahead and finish your answer. 9 A I was going to say, we wil do it, or the
10 other option is to contract it out. As a matter of

11 no sediment range lines close by there, then we'd do 12 some other method of trying to see what's happening.

11 fact, the main stem dams now are done by contract.
12 We just don't have a big enough section anymore.

13 Q You would use crosscsections that you
14 determined for that particular study or purpose? Or 15 what are you talking about there?

13 Q So if anybody in the Corps does it in the
14 Omaha District, it is you and Jolene and who else?

15 A Larry Morong. And we would do that -16 there's probably some other branches or sections.
17 Geotech probably has some equipment. I don't know if 18 they'd do the hydro work. They'd probably contact

16 A Yeah, we would find the location of who's
17 complaining and where the problem is. And if we have 18 sediment range lines in that location, we would 19 survey those range lines to try to help solve
20 problems.

19 us.
20 Q And that what I'm looking for. Who within
21 the Omaha District does the work that you do?

21 Q And if there aren't enough range lines for
22 your purposes, what do you do?

22 A Well, no one else really. They don't have
23 the boats, so they just don't do it. We prett much 24 do it or contract it out. 25 MS.SNYDER-VARNS: This is a good
Page 37
1 place for a break.

23 A We would probably use aerial photographs.
24 It kind of depends on the situation. But yeah, you
25 use whatever you can.

Page 35

1 Q So apart from the regular schedule of
2 gathering data from the range lines, it seems that

2 (9:40 a.m. - Recess taken)
3 (At 9:45 a.m., with all parties present as
4 before, the following proceedings were had, to wit:)

3 what you're testifying about is that problems
4 generate your going out and gathering cross-secion

5 data? It's a problem situation or a request for
6 specific information?

5 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

6 Q John, we've been talking about monitoring
7 of sediment in the main stem reservoir system. If we

7 A You know, if somebody request information,
8 it might not even be a problem. If we got a request
9 to do surveys on the Missouri River, we'd go out and

8 could talk a little bit about what programs you work
9 with in the Sedimentation and Channel Stabilization

10 survey on the Missouri River. So we survey a lot. 11 Sediment range lines pertin to prett much the main

10 Secion. Can you tell me what your understanding is

12 stem dams and then the smaller tributaries, and
13 that's on a project basis. And then we go out and 14 survey, you know, other times.

11 of the programs or the projec that you carry out in 12 that section, you specifically?

13 A Okay. We keep track of all the sediment
14 range lines we have. By keeping track, we either 15 survey them ourselves when it's time to surveyor we 16 have a contractor survey it. We do water surface

15 Q Can you give me examples of the other
16 times?

17 A There is -- for a program, shallow water
18 habitat or emergency sandbar or emergent sandbar

17 profiles; we do be samples; any hydrographic
18 surveying that needs to be done, we wil do it if 19 it's a small enough job, otherwise we'll have to

19 habitat, people need data for that, see how much
20 sediment they're going to have to move around to 21 create something. They want to know -- if they build 22 something in the river and they want to know if what 23 they are trying to do is working, we'll go in there

20 contract it out; if someone calls in and complains
21 about a problem, we might do a quick investigation 22 and see if it needs more of an analysis or what.

23 Q So these are the things that you do from
24 day to day?

24 and survey that.

25 Q Who does these surveys?

25 A Yes.
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1 Q Anything else you can think of? 2 A You know, if people want work done on the
3 river or want something, they'll come to us. And it
4 could be -- mostly it's something along those lines,

1 or is there more?

2 A Than what we just talked about?

3 Q (Nods head).
4 A Yeah. You know, we'll do different things.
5 But, I mean, that's basically it, hydrographic

5 and we will either try to do it or contract it out.

6 Q What are water surface profies? 7 A That's where you get in a boat and go
8 downriver and you take an elevation at the different
9 river miles of the water surface. You try to have a

6 surveying and looking at banks, what we've already

7 discussed I guess.

8 Q What do you personally know about
9 sedimentation on the Moreau River?

10 steady discharge, and then you can compare that; you 11 can say, well, I had a steady discharge 20 years ago,
12 and now the elevation at this discharge is higher 13 than it was 20 years ago or lower.

10 A What was in my report in 2003. We went up
11 there and took a look at the cross-sections, and then

12 I compared the historic cross-sections with the 2003

13 data.
14 Q Do you know anything else about 15 sedimentation onthe Moreau other than the data
16 gathering that you did for the 2003 report?

14 Q When you say you try to have a steady
15 discharge, who do you mean?

16 A The dam will try to -- as an example,
17 Gavins Point wil discharge 20,000 for two and a half

18 days.
19 Q So you do the water surface profiles in aid 20 of maintaining consistent discharge levels; is that
21 my understanding -- or is that correct?

17 A No. You know, the -18 Q Had you been up there before?
19 A I probably drove through the valley before,
20 but I never stopped in there before. So that was my
21 firs time up there. I might have been up there --

22 A I'm not sure -- yeah. Like Gavins Point
23 would do a steady discharge of 20,000 for two and a 24 half days. We would start probably about a day after

25 they started so we'd get that level and then start
Page 39 1 working our way downstream. And once we're down so
2 far, then they can strt discharging because it takes
3 time for the water to travel. And then, of course,

22 we did a monument maintenance for the Oahe project. 23 50 when we do a monument maintenance, we look at the 24 monument, and like I said, clear out the monuments 25 like we discussed before. I might have gone down

Page 41

1 there and done some of that on the Moreau River, but
2 I can't remember being there. In other words, we had

3 two crews out there. Did the whole Cheyenne River

4 there's inflows from tributaries. But we try to do 5 it when it's low. And, you know, if there's a big
6 rain storm, we'd probably just stop it. But most of

4 and the whole Oahe. That was the first time I had
5 been out there to do some surveying.

6 Q John, I'm going to show you what's been
7 marked as Exhibit No.4 it looks like. Can you tell

7 the time we don't have that problem.

8 Q What about bed spmples?

9 A We don't do as much of that as we used to.
10 But when we would survey a degradation reach or reach
11 below the dams, we would get bed samples and see if

8 me what that is? 9 A This is a report done by Alfred Harrison
10 and Warren Mellema, a Sediment Series. The only

11 thing that I can say is I met the men one time. They
12 were -- I believe Harrison was working when I firs
13 strting here. And they had been working in the

12 the grain size has changed.

13 Q Why don't you do it as much as you used to? 14 A The surveys are getting farther and farther
15 apart I guess. And then we try to get it done 16 whenever we do a survey. At one time the surveys

14 Distrct for a long time, and they put out this
15 report. It generally talks about aggradation and

16 degradation aspec of the Missouri River and the
17 main stem dams.

17 were done one to five years apart on the degradation 18 reaches, and now it's every ten years. 19 Q So you're prett much the survey guy for 20 the District?

18 Q For the record, yesterday when we marked
19 the deposition, we just had the first couple of pages 20 and then the last page. You then provided me a copy

21 A Well, no. There's a surveying offce in
22 the District that does most of the land surveying, 23 so we do most of the hydrographic surveying.

21 of the full report.

22 A Okay.
23 MS. SNYDER-VARNS: If you don't have 24 any objection, Mr. Gette, I would just ask that we 25 substitute a complete report for that exhibit, or we

24 Q Okay. Is that a fair description of your
25 position and responsibilities at the Omaha District

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2
3

can just mark a new one. MR. GET: Let's just mark a new one.
MS. SNYDER-VARNS: Okay. We can just

A

No.

2

Q
A

So you're basically it?

3

4
5

mark a new one.
(Exhibit NO.9 marked for identification).
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

4
5

Our section, yes. Q So apart from what you do for sediment monitoring, what else is done within the section?
A

6
7

8 9 10 11

Q

Now, the introduction to this report on

6 7 8

I guess I don't -- our section will get the

data. I mean, not only me. Somebody else might be in charge of a contract, the contractor that sends
the data in, and they will get the information and

page one here mentions that -- in the very middle of
the page that "1.35 times ten to the negative eight

9
10
11

put it in our database, or I might put it in our
database. Somebody puts it in our database. Q So is it fair to say that the Sediment Investigation Program consist of the data that you collect -A Right. Q -- the database that you maintain?
A I think that would be a prett good assumption, yeah. And it's just not the cross-section, but we have the bed samples which I talked.about before and some other things that we've

tons of sediment per year were transported by the 12 river as suspended load prior to construction of the 13 dams." And then, "The amount of sediment passing
14 15 16 17 18 19

through the system has virtually been reduced to zero." And we talked a little bit earlier -- you

testified a little bit earlier about where generally in the system the sediment accumulates. Now, on page seven of the report, right
below that heading "Sediment Investigation Program," this report says that "Beginning with about 1950, an

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

20
21

20
21 22 23 24 25

22 23 24 25

extensive Sediment Investigation Program was developed throughout the entire main stem system
aimed at monitoring sediment effect in the

collected. But most of this data would be collected in our section or stored in our section.
Q So the data in the database includes the cross-section surveys, the bed samples, water surface levels or elevations. What else does the database

aggradation and degradation trends over the years of
projec operation."

Page 43
1

Page 45
1

2
3

Now, when I was asking you earlier about monitoring of sedimentation within the basin, do you

2 3

include? A Suspended sediment data; historically we

know anything about this program?

have some maps, location maps, where the
cross-sections are at; we have

4
5

MR. GET: Objection. I'm just going
to object to the previous reading of a portion of the

4
5

the stage data on some

of the stages that are right along -- or gauges that
are right along the Missouri River.

6
7 8 9

document that I don't see the connection between.
But your final question is fine. And you can answer that.

6
7 8 9 10
11

Q

How do you gather the suspended sediment.

data?
I haven't done that for a long time. And A sometimes we contract that out to the USGS. But

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

THE WITESS: That would be the sediment range lines, basically -- I mean, there's some other stff -- but basically the sediment range
lines and surveying them. And then we have a data of how it's changed over time. So that's a way to monitor it.
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:
Q

there's equipment that you wil drop down in from a
boat, drop down and open up a sampler for a certin

So is what you have done in the 20 years

since you've been with the Omaha District basically

this Sedime.nt Investgation Program referred to in this report?
A
I haven't read this report for a long time.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

amount of time and it collec data, and then you do some analysis off of that.
Q
A

So it's basically water sampling?

Except for sediment, not for chemicals.

20 21 22 23 24 25

20
21 22 23 24 25

But that part of it, yeah, that's what we kind of do.
Q

Is there any other component or part of

Q And it says here in the report, just the very nex sentence, that the program was designed to determine the rate, magnitude and the location of areas of scour and deposition. Now, this report was done in 1984. Is that still the goal or the design of this program?

that Sediment Monitoring Program or Sediment Investgation Program referred tö here that you don't

do?

I would think so, yeah. Does the program do anything else other than what is mentioned here?
A

Q

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Page 48

1

2 3

4
5

6
7

Well, yes. We -- let's see. We've talked about bank erosion, which we've looked at mainly below the main stem dams but in other areas too. Q Anything else? A We collect hydrographic data for other purposes than for this. But this is our main job
A

1

2 3

4
5

there's some that .don't -- then we would have some information on it. Q And say for the Moreau on the Oahe project, would that be included in your survey ofthe entire

projec? Where would that data be recorded?
A

6

Yeah. When they did the -- the last time

here.
Q Moving down to the bottom of page seven, John, it talks about "Profiles of water surface elevations, stream velocities and suspended sediment concentrations were measured along reservoir, back water and degradation reaches." And it looks like that's associated with initial activities of this program, if you look up to where we were just reading. And then it goes on to say, "After about 25 years of observation, the above data also permits

8
9

10
11

7 8 9 10
11

it was done was probably in 1989 when they did a
survey of the whole project. And I think it's in

that report. I believe they would have had the area
capacity in there. Q Moving to page nine of the report, right in the middle of the page there it says, "Numerous post-construction surveys of the sediment ranges have

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

12

correlations between pre-project estimates and
post~project actual experience." Do you still compare or correlate data between, say, pre-project estimates or even -- well, let's leave it at that -- between pre-project estimates? Do you still do any correlations like

13 14 15 16 17 18 19

been completed since closure of each project in order
to verify and/or adjust these rates if warranted." And what it's referring to appears to be the prior paragraph which talks about depletion

rates.
A

Well,there's this Table 2.

20 21 22 23 24 25

20
21

that?
A

I look at the cross-section data, and we

usually always bring up the pre-project
Page 47

22 23 24 25

Uh-huh. And that would be to verify or adjust these rates if warranted between the various years I think.
Q
A

I don't -- let's see -Q
A
So you're familiar with depletion rates?

Yes.

Page 49
1

1

cross-section.
Q That tends to be a part of the studies that you do?
A

Q
A

What is that?
How much sediment has come into the system

2
3

2 3

4
5 6 7

Q

Right. Okay. What correlations do you do within

4
5

since the original time or between survey periods. Q And itsays in the next sentence, "These
surveys have provided information on both the rate at which reservoir storage volume is being lost due to sedimentation and the location of these deposits both longitudinally and vertically within the reservoir pools."
So you're familar with the fact that the surveys that you do are at least in part to determine

the realm of post-project, I guess, correlations?
MR. GETE: Objection -MS. SNYDER-VARNS: And I recognize -yeah, that's a crappy question.

6

8
9

7 8
9 10
11

10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

MR. GETE: Well, I think the
correlation is between pre- and post- as I understand
it. BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:
Q
A

Do you do correlations within post-dam -Yes, we're also checking on how the river's

changed from the left bank to the right bank. The thalweg switches al! the time. We want to know how much deposition has occurred in the reservoir since
the beginning and between survey periods.

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

the depletion rates of the reserviors?

A

Q

Yes. Okay. And have you prepared tables like
Yes.
Table 2?

this?
A

Q
A

(Nods head).
And where would those tables be located?

Q
A

20 Q And what about the tributaries? 21 A We do an Area Capacity Program to find out 22 how much deposition has occurred between all our 23 range lines. That's another part of the -- that's 24 the other part of what we do the cross-seions for. 25 So if we have seven range lines on a tributry --

20
21

On our database.
How often do you prepare tables like that?

Q
A

22 23 24 25

Whenever the slirvey is completed, then it wil probably be some period after that we would do
an area capacity -- run the area capacity program, and then we would update the information on it.

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Page 52

1 Q Now, looking at this Table 2 on page ten,
2 it talks about -- it's entitled "Sediment Depletion
3 of Missouri River Reservoirs." And it does include

1 low for many years so there's not as much bank
2 erosion. But I think with the decrease in bank
3 erosion, I would say that it might be more leveling

4 the six main stem dams, and it includes Oahe.

4 off.
5

5 Can you tell me what this table tells me
6 about the depletion rate for Oahe?

Q So would the last part of that sentence
there on page nine then --

7 A They had a long-term depletion estimate in
8 that first column, first two columns. One's an
9 original estimate. They're estimating back -- I

6 7

8
9 10
11

A This very low-Q -- "although" -- it says -- the whole
sentence says, "It is apparent that the long-term

10 don't know what the original estimate was, but I 11 assume that's when thedam was completed or prior to 12 that, probably within five or ten years prior to 13 that, so in the fifties. They didn't have a lot of 14 data, but they were figuring that about 39,980 acre 15 feet of sediment would come in per year. The current 16 estimate they decided was 32,290. The original

storage depletion rates appear to be stabilzing and
approaching constnt values, although the incremental rates between resurveys continue to fluctuate in response to basin runoff."

17 storage for Oahe was 23,700,000 --

18 Q Acre feet of water? 19 A -- acre feet of water. The volume of it in
20 1976 was 23.4 milion. The project year age at that

21 time was 18 years. So there -- again, this is
22 estimated -- or it's a measured depletion rate of

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

A That's probably a good sttement.
Q And that's stil true now.
Moving then down to pages 14 and 15 of the

report, on page 14 it mentions that -- it talks about
the types of sediment that are entering Oahe, Big Bend and Fort Randall. And it says that there are

23 22,900 acre feet per year. 24 Q Which is about 1.74 percent of the original 25 storage capacity?
Page 51

22 23 24 25

high percentages of montmorilonite and bentonite clays." And then in the last sentence on page 14 it says, "The results of the deposition of these
sediments basically is similar to estuaries where upland streams meet the ocean. Then it says, ''The fluff consolidates further into fixotropic liquid or
Page 53

1 A About 1.7 percent of the original storage
2 has been lost since the original surveys.

1 muck with measured densities ranging from 50 to a 2 hundred cubic kilograms," it appears, "dry weight.
3 This is characterizing the sediment that's flowing

3 Q Going back to page 9, it says that "It is
4 apparent from Figure 3 that the long-term storage

4 into Oahe, Big Bend and Fort Randall."

5 depletion rates appear to be stbilzing and

5 Do you get into the nature of the sediment
6 in your work?

6 approaching constant values."

7 Now, again, this report was done in 1984.

7 A Not too much. I haven't dealt with that
8 too much. But also this is kind of a broad sttement
9 I would think. The Fort Randall has the White River

8 Have you seen that born out that the depletion rates
9 have stbilized or do they continue to increase?

10 A I think -- and I haven't looked at this
11 table for some time. But I think most of them have 12 been decreased from the originaL. But the original 13 estimate was prett close. And it just depends on 14 the cyclic period between the surveys. If it was a
15 very wet period, you had more higher discharges which

10 coming in, really high concentrations of 11 montmorilonite and bentonite, and it's real fluff, 12 stys in suspension for a long, long, long time. You 13 could probably could drive a boat through it
14 sometimes.

15 And I'm not as familar with the
16 tributaries on Oahe, but I would think that the 17 Sheyenne River might have more of the montmorilonite 18 and bentonite clays. I didn't notice that at the

16 generally produces more sediment, and then during a
17 drought period you'd have less sediment coming in.

18 One thing that would make a difference is
19 another part of the sediment depletion rate would be 20 bank erosion. And there's always been a feeling

19 Moreau. I've been on some water surface profiles
20 where you end up down about the Cannonball River, and

21 that -- when I first strted, they said, well, the 22 banks erosion is lessening. I don't think it was
23 when I firs strted. But I think now, you know, in

21 I don't notice as much of that. I mean, at least it
22 doesn't look like the White River, but --

24 a lot of areas it's reaching equilbrium. Again,
25 that depends on pool elevation, the pool's been down

\23 tributary where this -- is more typical of a .24 Q So the white river

25 A The White River runs through the Badlands

14 (Pages 50 to 53)
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,

Case 1:03-cv-00600-EJD

Document 66-8
Page 54

Filed 01/23/2008

Page 15 of 29
Page 56

1 of South Dakota and it picks up a lot of that
2 bentonite and montmorillonite and it just stys in

1 queston. 2 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

3 suspension, like I said, forever. And I haven't-4 but I don't get up to that area as much. But I
5 didn't see that type of material when I was doing the

3 Q Does the buildup of sediment at the
4 confluence or the delta have any effect on the 5 tributary upstream of the delta?

6 cross-sections on the Moreau. So, I mean, I think
7 that was kind of a general sttement that this

6 A I'd say it depends. It could, and it might
7 not. Like I said, it probably depends on the -- if

8 material does come in, and it probably depends on

9 where the tributary's headwaters are at. 10 Q If you didn't see these types of materials,
11 can you tell me what kind you did see?

8 you have a delta, there's some back water. But it 9 depends on the pool elevation, the flow. So, you

12 A I didn't really take a good notice. I
13 would say it was some silts and sands, but I could be

10 know, it could. It definitely has an impact where it 11 drops out, but then -12 Q What effect can the formation of a delta
13 at the mouth of a tributary have upstream of the

14 mistken on that. 15 Q Okay. From your experience in working on 16 the system with seimentation, what effect do 17 sediment have on tributaries to the reserviors? 18 MR. GETE: Objection; breadth,
19 overbroad.

14 delta? 15 A It can have -- it can increase the
16 groundwater tablel;it can have more frequent

17 overfow of the banks; it can cause the stream to
18 have more movement.

20 THE WITNESS: Did you say what effect 21 does the deposition of sediment from the tributaries
22 have?
23 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

19 Q And by that, what do you mean? 20 A The stream's coming down at a certain
21 slope, and then when it gets down to the flat part it

22 will build up some sediment, and then the next heavy
23 discharge wil bounce over to the other side. It's 24 called avulsion I believe.

24 Q On the tributaries.

25 A The deposition?

25 Q Anything else?
Page 55

1 Q (Nods head).
2 A Right where the -- as with anything in
3 nature, it

Page 57

1 A It can cause more vegetation, changes of
2 vegetation.

just varies so much. You know, it depends

3 Q What sort of changes?
4 MR. GETE: Objection.
5 THE WITNESS: I wouldn't know what,

4 on pool elevations and discharges and everyhing.

5 But a broad sttement is that when, you know, you

6 have a tributary going into a reservoir or even a
7 river, it start slowing up, the velocity wil start

6 you know, type. If you raise the groundwater, then
7 you're changing, you know what I mean -- well, let's
'8 see. If you raise the groundwater, some plants and
9 stuff that might be

8 slowing up, and it wil drop out the heavier

9 materials. So there's usually some deposition

living there might not live there

10 ,occurring right around where the pool elevations are 11 with the tributary. But that changes with the pool 12 elevation. If it fluctuates a lot, that might -- you
13 know, when the pool elevations are down low, it might 14 move that sediment farther down. 15 Q And what you're describing seems to be the 16 delta or the confluence area where the tributary 17 meets the pool or say the Missouri before it was 18 dammed; is that right?

10 anymore. 11 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

12 Q And would other sort of plants come in?

13 MR. GETE: Objection; calls for
14 speulation.
15 THE WINESS: And I'm not a plant 16 person, but, you know-17 BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

18 Q What have you observed in your work on the
19 tributaries to the main stem dams in the last 20 20 years is what I'm asking.

19 A Yeah. You know, it's about where -- where
20 all the tributaries come down, even a little drainage
21 wil have some bUildup of sediment where the pool

21 A Down around the Niobrara where I spent a
22 lot of time, there's a lot of cattils that have
23 changed over time.

22 elevation is.

23 Q And that buildup of sediment or delta has 24 impact on the tributary upstream?

25 MR. GET: Objection; form of the

24 Q Can it include weeds? 25 MR. GETE: Objecion; calls for
15 (Pages 54 to 57)

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c

Case 1:03-cv-00600-EJD
speculation. Where? When?

Document 66-8
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Filed 01/23/2008

Page 16 of 29
Page 60

1

1

A

Yeah, the work would have come through him.
How does it come

2

MS. SNYDER-VARNS: It does not call

2 3

Yeah.
Q
A
through him?

3

for speculation. I'm asking him for what he knows

4
5

from his experience. MR. GETE: Where? When?
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

4
5

I'm not sure. I mean, it could come from

Real Estte; it could come from Operations; could

6 7

6
7 8 9 10
11

come from Regulatory. And then, you know, they ask
him. Then he looks at who's got time to do it, I

Q

It can be generaL. It's a perfectly

8 9 10
11

appropriate question. On the main stem system, tributaries to the main stem system, any of them. A At the delta where you're having a change
and where the water comes up, builds up the

guess.
Q And really the question is a lot more simple than that. I mean, how does work move from your supervisor to you? Do you get a memo? Do you get an oral request? Do you get an order or form of

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21

groundwater, or start flooding some .lands, the vegetation is going to change.
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

12 13 14
15

some sort?
A Oh, it can come both ways. He could just say, you know, we need to go up and survey this, and then we'll figure out a time to do it and then do

Q

What specific changes have you observed?

What specific changes? MR. GETE: Objection.
THE WITNESS: I don't always -- I mean, I'm not looking at the types of vegetation. I guess I -- now, around the Niobrara area I've noticed

16 17 18 19

some travel orders.
Q And you already mentioned that Jolene of your offce and a student helped you collect data for
the report?

20

22 23 24 25

dead cottonwood trees. And then -- I wish I was more 21 of a plant expert, but I -22
BY MS. SNYDER-VARNS:

A

No.

Q
A

I'm sorry.
They went

23

Q

What about the Moreau, what did you observe

there? What kind of vegetation did you see on the

24 25

up later. For this one it was Ben Ream, which was a student at the time, and Neal
Voll.

Page 59

Page 61

1

Moreau from the delta upstream when you went to do
the surveys?

1

2

3

A

There's a lot of vegetation there; there's
Do you remember what -When I went -- my first time up there, that

2 3

Okay. And it was John Remus and you that determined what data to gather?
Q
A

Yes.

4
5

a lot of trees.
Q
A

4
5 6

And again, that consisted of cross-section surveys?
Q
A We wanted to go up there as -- the first thing we wanted to do was collect the cross-section data and see if there had been any changes.

6 7

first day I was with one of the landowners, and he
was saying I think western wheat grass. But I couldn't verify if that's right or not. But -Q John, I'm going to show you what we have marked as Exhibit No.6. Can you tell me what this
is?
A No. That looks like a picture on my report though. I wish I had a better picture.

8
9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16

7 8
9 10
11

Q

If you flip to the next page of this

exhibit, maybe you'll recognize it. Do you know what
that is now? A This (indicating)? Q As a whole.
A
Oh, as a whole, yeah. That's my report. I

17 18
19

12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19

Q Did you do any cross-sections other than the range lines? A No. Q And then you compiled the data that you gathered into this report? A Yes.
Q
A

And you said you also did some work with
Ywe es, got that data from the USGS.

the gauge up at White Horse?

Q

Now, in the report, it looks like you broke

it down by range line. On page one of the report you
have a paragraph for each range line it looks like.

20 21 22 23 24 25

thought you were talking about the picture. Q What report is it?
A

Q

It's the report I did in 2003. And it was John Remus who told you to do

it?

20 21 22 23 24 25

Is that accurate, that you