Free Motion to Compel - District Court of Federal Claims - federal

Case 1:93-cv-00655-MMS

Document 177-10

Filed 12/07/2007

Winiarski, Michael

Washington, DC

November 13, 2007

Page 1 of 7 EXHIBIT I

Page 1
IN THE UNITED STATES COURT OF FEDERAL CLAIMS

- - - - - - - - - - - - - x ANAHEIM GARDENS, et al., Plaintiffs, V. THE UNITED STATES, Defendant. : : : : : No. 93-655 C

- - - - - - - - - - - - - x ALGONQUIN HEIGHTS, et al.,: Plaintiffs, V. THE UNITED STATES, Defendant. : : : : No. 97-582 C

- - - - - - - - - - - - - x Deposition of MICHAEL WINIARSKI Washington, D.C. Tuesday, November 13, 2007 9:39 a.m.

Reported by:

TRISTAN-JOSEPH, RPR

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Case 1:93-cv-00655-MMS

Document 177-10

Filed 12/07/2007

Winiarski, Michael

Washington, DC

November 13, 2007

Page 2 of 7 EXHIBIT I

Page 145
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. Q. Q. A. Q. -- okay? Yes, I'm just . . . We'll take a break in just a -- I just

want to finish the last series of a couple questions, I swear. But I understand that you did not receive them yourself and, obviously, the Field Office initially received the Notice of Intents, and that's fine. But I'm just wondering in connection with the work that you did on the database, did you ever encounter or come across either an actual document, a Notice of Intent, seeking to prepay, or whatever notice that you got to put into the database indicating that an order had sought to prepay? A. Q. Yes, I believe we did. Was that under ELIHPA or LIHPRHA? Do you know? I cannot recall at this time. Okay. Do you remember whether any of

those applications to prepay eventually were

Henderson Legal Services 202-220-4158

Case 1:93-cv-00655-MMS

Document 177-10

Filed 12/07/2007

Winiarski, Michael

Washington, DC

November 13, 2007

Page 3 of 7 EXHIBIT I

Page 146
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 later. Were there any discussions that took place at HUD with respect to the enactment of LIHPRHA and what, if any, impact it had on Owners' rights generally? A. You're saying do we have meetings approved by HUD? A. There was at least one that I recall There's

getting -- I used to know all the details. one that was allowed to prepay. it was ELIHPA or LIHPRHA. Q. A. Which property was that?

I don't recall if

Do you recall?

I can't remember the name, but it was in

Madison, Wisconsin, I believe. Q. Okay. We can talk about that a little

internally -Q. A. Q. A. Q. A. Yeah. -- at HUD about that? Yeah. For that specific program. Mm-hmm? No. It would have just been the

Henderson Legal Services 202-220-4158

Case 1:93-cv-00655-MMS

Document 177-10

Filed 12/07/2007

Winiarski, Michael

Washington, DC

November 13, 2007

Page 4 of 7 EXHIBIT I

Page 172
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. Q. A. Q. For prepayment? For prepayment under Title II. I don't recall that. From the time that an Owner -- and I

realize that you didn't begin to work full-time for the Preservation Division until 1992, do you know what kind of contact prior to that time the Field Office would have once they received a Notice of Intent would they be required to contact someone at headquarters and send some kind of information to them? A. Q. I don't know specifically. Okay. Do you remember seeing any of the

application -- I think you said earlier before lunch than an application to prepay was approved for one property and it was located in Madison, Wisconsin? A. Q. property? A. Q. I can't recall, no. Several of the properties, the I believe so, yes. Did we identify the name of that

Henderson Legal Services 202-220-4158

Case 1:93-cv-00655-MMS

Document 177-10

Filed 12/07/2007

Winiarski, Michael

Washington, DC

November 13, 2007

Page 5 of 7 EXHIBIT I

Page 232
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. Q. BY MR. KELLY: Q. This document is the Defendant's (Winiarski Deposition Exhibit No. 12 was marked for Identification.)

Submittal Response To Plaintiff's Second Set Of Interrogatories, and it's dated November 2nd. Have you seen this document before, sir? I don't believe so. Do you know whether you participated in

drafting this or assisted in drafting these responses? A. Q. I don't think so. If you could take look at page -- well, It has the heading

it's marked as page Arabic 1. "Interrogatories." A. Q. Yes. Okay.

And the last sentence or the next

to the last sentence of this page says, "One of the three projects permitted to prepay was Parc Chateau West project, which submitted a Plan of Action that satisfied the statutory criteria for prepayment under the Preservation Statutes."

Henderson Legal Services 202-220-4158

Case 1:93-cv-00655-MMS

Document 177-10

Filed 12/07/2007

Winiarski, Michael

Washington, DC

November 13, 2007

Page 6 of 7 EXHIBIT I

Page 234
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 under? A. Q. No, I don't. And you don't have any recollection of under the Preservation Statutes. Do you know which statute it had applied

the actual content of the Plan of Action and what evidence that it showed that authorized HUD to make those findings, do you? A. Q. No, I don't. Okay. What about the other project that

you identified, do you have any specific recollection as to which statute it was proceeding under for purposes of prepayment? A. Q. I can't recall at this time. You just don't remember, it could be

either one; is that right? A. It could be either one. Yeah, I know it

was a prepaid transaction, but I can't recall the way it proceeded. Q. Were there -- and do you have any

recollection of the specific criteria that allowed that property to prepay?

Henderson Legal Services 202-220-4158

Case 1:93-cv-00655-MMS

Document 177-10

Filed 12/07/2007

Winiarski, Michael

Washington, DC

November 13, 2007

Page 7 of 7 EXHIBIT I

Page 235
1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 A. Q. A. Q. A. No. Okay. Do you know who Maurice Barry is?

Yes, I do. Who is it Maurice Barry? Well, he's a person that I used to work

with from the Boston office. Q. What was the context in which you used

to work with him? A. Well, I met him on a few occasions.

Most of the time was just to get information from him or to provide information to him about processing things we were looking for. Q. Mr. Barry? A. A fair amount during the program How often were you in contact with

operational years, I think in '92 to -- before the HOPE. I don't remember all the times but pretty

much he was responsible for Boston properties, and when we needed information about Boston properties, I'd contact him, or if he was going to let us know something was happening, he would contact me. Q. Was this information for purposes of

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